Texas Teamplayers in the tech class.

**imported_Leroy** · 09-22-09, 12:04 AM

Anything the government get's its hands on, it messes it up.

**jyrodus** · 09-25-09, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by [GF]<Mr.G>

I disagree, the government doesn't have the right to do that. Companies should be able to run their business as they see fit. If you dis like you internet provider, then pick another and the bad provider will fail. Once you impose regulations its almost impossible to get rid of them and these regulations only make things worse.

The government has the right to do what they please, unfortunately. YOUR rights are either an illusion, or only exist because they are protected by government bodies. They can take it away. Democracy does not exist (ESPECIALLY in the US)

He who has the gold (or the guns) makes the rules. Luckily the US government hasn't been over the top in comparison to more illegitimate regimes, they let you get away with stuff because riots and revolutions are a pain in the ass to deal with.

Anyway. About the "pick another provider" idea, that may not work if they all do the same thing. It isn't all that uncommon (just perhaps unrecognized) for companies to throw all their chips together if it benefits them all. So they might ALL throttle your bandwidth so you don't have a choice. That may or may not happen, but it's possible, especially if they are lobbying to prevent the FCC regulation.

**Dead Prodigy** · 09-25-09, 05:08 AM

Whatever happened to the old days? You know, where we threw sticks, stones, and pointy objects at each other until there was one person left standing, that person becoming the big ol' leader.

These days, we have to listen to a bunch of morons in suits blabber on about how they are "doing everything in the country's best interests." Pfft. Bullshit. Now their laying out plans for 'net neutrality'? What the hell? That's something I'd expect from Doctor Doom or Magneto.

Why does the world have to be so fucked up these days?

**jyrodus** · 09-25-09, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dead Prodigy

Whatever happened to the old days? You know, where we threw sticks, stones, and pointy objects at each other until there was one person left standing, that person becoming the big ol' leader.

These days, we have to listen to a bunch of morons in suits blabber on about how they are "doing everything in the country's best interests." Pfft. Bullshit. Now their laying out plans for 'net neutrality'? What the hell? That's something I'd expect from Doctor Doom or Magneto.

Why does the world have to be so fucked up these days?

I think it's all related to globalization. Thing have gotten too large for single people or even organizations to even think about handling, but yet it's possible for an oligarchy to screw everything up.

There are select people who are wealthy enough to destroy the whole world economy nearly on their own (and I'm hearing lately that it's exactly what happened a year or two ago).

Really, the only choice governments have now (in their own best interest) is to keep people ignorant and occupied so that they don't really see how the system works and see how very fragile it actually is.

We are fast approaching an age where one man can destroy the world if he sees fit to do so. It's dangerous.

**redfuzzy** · 09-25-09, 08:07 AM

0_0

*tries to open mouth to talk* *closes*

*tries again* *succeeds*

Can we, possibly, be a bit reasonable here? The world is far from black and white, good and evil, or even worse than ever. The world is quite complicated, and the solutions to its problems are so too. There is no absolute truth, only different shapes and hues from which we can derive a complex answer to a problem. There are no simple solutions.

I also am slightly appalled at jyrodus for thinking that the government allows us our rights. However, that is a different discussion, and is not particularly relevant to this topic, so I'm going to not touch upon that. I would also like to politely ask him to refrain from that off-topic discussion as well because although it would be interesting, it could get heated very fast, and derail the thread.

I do think that passing legislation to preserve net neutrality (which is the current policy of most ISP's) is a good idea. But, they must be careful. There are several techniques that ISP's employ which will slow down, or affect the connection of some users that slow down the system as a whole. This, along with techniques of prioritizing certain connections over others, is to keep the system running smoothly. If they interfere with this, then all they will do is slow the internet down.

However, there needs to be a block on such things as unreasonable download limits. For example, Time Warner a few months ago tested a new payment plan that would put a cap on download limits. I can not locate the article at this time, but someone in the test area easily went over the limit by simply doing her daily routines with an xbox. This plan was scrapped luckily, however it is important to note that it was tested in an area where Time Warner was the only high speed provider.

This is actually the case in many areas. There are several internet providers, but there is only one high speed provider. This means that a company can decide to pull something, and your option is to either put up with it or get a lower internet speed. This is not free market at its best, and it is an issue that I believe needs to be dealt with as well.

My overall point is that some light regulation is needed to make sure that companies won't try things like ridiculous download caps or having websites pay for higher speeds. But, they need to be very careful that they don't prevent the companies from using creative marketing techniques, nor keeping them from using certain network techniques that inconvenience one user because he is slowing down the network as a whole.

Careful regulation, the sign of a good mixed economy at work.

**jyrodus** · 09-25-09, 08:14 AM

Re redfuzzy:

Rights are arbitrary. Just like law. Unless you want to get religious, the only 'rights' you have are written on paper. If there is nobody willing to enforce what that paper says, then you in effect have no rights. You only have to look at history to see this plainly.

Also, there is no black and white, true. But there will often be black or white in a given instance of time.... i.e. the end result is what matters - if you break a window the window is undeniably in a broken state, regardless of how it got that way.

But yeah, I digress. Forgive my derailing the thread.

**jyrodus** · 09-25-09, 08:58 AM

Also, to get back on topic (and agree somewhat with red)

Some regulation is necessary. People may generally have good will, but I wouldn't blindly depend on it.

A totally free market does not work because companies set standards for each other. You may get lucky and have a company that goes beyond the norm, but without regulations there is really no actual incentive to do so.

e.g. if I'm the only ISP that offers an 8 mbit connection in my service area, I can pretty much set whatever rules I want (as redfuzzy rightly mentioned)

Or alternately, if everyone offers 8mbit, I don't have to offer any more if it will cost me. I'd only offer more speed if it would guarantee more customers and more profits.

So yeah, the FCC's wholesale prevention of bandwidth throttling is not good. Though I feel some sort of regulation may be in order so that ISP's can't shaft customers whenever they feel like it to lower costs beyond a reasonable level.

**Abyss Crown** · 09-25-09, 05:41 PM

I kind of find it odd that how everything is blamed on globalization. While there can be good reasoning, everything is to be quickly judged as a plan towards globalization; that is all.

Net neutrality to be curbed in the eu - The Inquirer

Here's an article about the European issue of net neutrality, instead of the U.S.

**jyrodus** · 09-25-09, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Abyss Crown

I kind of find it odd that how everything is blamed on globalization. While there can be good reasoning, everything is to be quickly judged as a plan towards globalization; that is all.

That was in response to something totally different (don't feel like looking back for it because it was a tangent)

And things aren't blamed on globalization. They are made possible by globalization, whether they are good or bad.

It allows for great progress but along with that comes potential for great failure. Of course it could be argued that the global system is more robust, but personally I think that is flawed. It's like trying to protect from forest fires by making the forest bigger.