Thread: National ID cards

You can find those on most of the games you buy people.

Originally Posted by draco7891

Originally Posted by MooMasterCowman

a standardized ID would cut down on credit card fraud, for one, since no retailer trains their cashiers on what every last state ID is supposed to look like, and how to tell if it's a fake.

No, but any brain-dead monkey can compare the signature on the receipt to the one on the back of the card. See here for an interesting and altogether hilarious purview of the state of "training" of most retail employees in detecting possible fraud. Besides, most fraud like that is commited online, where you only need the card itself, and can anonymize yourself sufficiently to evade prosecution.

almost noone signs their cards. more often than not... that little strip for the signature is blank, or has "SEE ID" written there. yeah, i'm a cashier. lots of cards, no sig's.

as for online fraud, that is true. that's a bitch to catch, especially with it being automated. at best, you're left being forced to spend time undoing the damage.

Originally Posted by draco7891

what i'm getting at, in a rather roundabout way, is that i support a reliable, standardized way to PROVE that you're who you say you are.

Then why not implant coded RFID tags at birth, just like a dog? You can't lose it (unless you're prone to losing your dermis), it's always available, uniquely identifies the exact individual, and can be read anywhere in the world (just imagine, just offer your shoulder as proof when making purchases abroad).

even though i'd have no problem with that myself, i don't see that actually happening. most people wouldn't like that idea.

Originally Posted by draco7891

PS: The DCMS owns your soul, Clanner scumbag.

actually, in terms of faction preferences, i'm more of a ComStar guy. i just happen to like the Novacat mech. also made a decent screenname for a while. most other mech names don't fit well as a screenname

Originally Posted by MooMasterCowman

almost noone signs their cards. more often than not... that little strip for the signature is blank, or has "SEE ID" written there. yeah, i'm a cashier. lots of cards, no sig's.

Well, you could at least check to see if the signature looks kinda like a name; "I stole this card" should probably raise someone's eyebrow.

Aren't you supposed to reject the card if it's unsigned? My bank made me sign mine before they would activate it, and it's got a little "not valid unless signed" label on it.

even though i'd have no problem with that myself, i don't see that actually happening. most people wouldn't like that idea.

There ya go, not in my ass, not in my ID. People just aren't willing to accept RFID's yet, at least insofar as unique identification of their person.

actually, in terms of faction preferences, i'm more of a ComStar guy. i just happen to like the Novacat mech.

Lies, all lies, lalala I can't hear you...

Need new Mech game... with VOIP... and squads... and some sort of delicious beverage dispenser, so's we can play on TTP proper-like. Somebody poke WizKids.

Draco

Originally Posted by nsRaven

*Warning: Long-winded reply.

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by nsRaven

We're talking about something without an independent power source and small enough to be placed in a card.

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This isn't something I'm saying just because I happen to have ID cards with RFID. I really do know a thing or too about this subject and the principles involved.

If you know a thing, or two, or five, or eleven, about this subject then show it. Don't let a dumbass lawyer like me show you the light. Show everyone what confidence looks like and then follow through. Tell us how safe a pin-dick sized chip is. Kick my ass.

TTP watches for potential admins. Are you among the next? Or is someone else? There is only so much room to move around here and your ass is as wide as mine. Dance. Tell us more about them ID cards.

Knowing a thing or two about this comes from my Masters degree in Electrical Engineering that I have collecting dust in my closet. That pin-dick sized chip is about 1 cm2. By itself it doesn't do anything, its all up to the antenna which is typically a flat square coil, more of an inductor really than an antenna. An alternating magnetic field across the inductor creates an electric current, giving you power. You also have to take into account that there is a capacitor in parallel with the inductor which creates a harmonic circuit. Its a basic RF receiver, the capacitance and the inductance dictate the frequency being received. So you can't just blast it with any old electromagnetic field and expect it to work.

Any power generated from the inductor needs to serve two purposes. It needs to power the pin-dick IC chip and it needs to power the transmitting of data. When the data is transmitted, it isn't like a normal transmitter. It is backscattered over the same harmonic circuit and frequency that it is receiving power on. Think of it like this: Its a bit windy and you spit into the wind. Some of that spit hits the ground and some of it flies back in your face. The spit is the carrier wave (power source), the wind is the power generated by the inductor, and the wind blown spit is the backscattering of the data on the carrier wave. Not the best analogy, but it works sort of. Notice you don't get all of the spit back, its not a strong method of transmitting not to mention you need more power the further you spit into the wind if you want any of it to hit your face.

The power generated is proportional to the size of the inductor/antenna. Ideally, the inductor should be just large enough to power the chip, with the left over energy being enough for transmitting no more than an inch to a foot or two. That's not always the case though since these coils are cheap and easy to produce, they usually end up oversized which leads to Mr. White's example of his friends demonstrating 15 ft read ability. There's also the example of passports that have been successfully read over 30 ft. I can see someone easily skimming information from individual people, but when you start looking at groups or crowds you have potentially multiple RFIDs activating and then you need real skills at signal processing to isolate a signal and dampen out the collisions if you even can.

That's the skinny of it on how passive RFID works. Its not in any way like GPS. There shouldn't be any fear of being tracked with it. Well, actually, if you've seen Minority Report and remember all of the retinal scanners IDing people and popping up personalized advertisements...with a reasonably powerfull antenna to reach out 10's of feet I guess I could see something very similar occurring. That would be a bitch.

If you're afraid of identity theft, remember that nothing is unhackable. I know that doesn't give you warm and fuzzies, but hey, its true. Also keep in mind that all of your personal and financial information is online somewhere, readily accessible to anyone who dares to hack into it. Think about how many times you give your credit card to someone to pay a bill at a restaurant or whatever. Do you have any idea how easy it is for someone to just write down the card number, expiration date, verification code, and your name...everything needed to charge that card online? Happened to me. Keep in mind that sometimes the receipts generated don't block out the entire card number either, another easy target. People can also create checks with their name on it using your bank's routing number and your bank account number. Happened to my parents. I guarantee you that right now, some old person in Florida is sending their personal and banking information to some "investment banker" in Nigeria.

RFID isn't bad by itself and its just as vulnerable as any other form of ID and personal information. Its the potential for its use when put into law that is the true evil. No one wants that Minority Report / Big Brother scenario to play out. If properly controlled, it could be a good thing. I don't have as much faith in our politicians to do the right thing though.

nsRaven,

That's the best damn post I've read in a long time. Great analogy with the spitting in the wind thing. I see it. I'm a retired electrical engineer and could never have come up with that analogy.

As for your concern about politicians doing the right thing with RFID, that's a valid and common concern. Have you ever considered being a politician? You might have a knack for it.

When Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts went through his confirmation hearing he was asked his opinion of implanting RFID chips under the skin to track peoples' movements. Below is a link to an article that includes the quote. I am confident that the quote is accurate. The quote gives you, and the other readers, an idea of the kinds of discussions that are happening in Washington. Those politicians are careful with what they say and what they ask. You can pick their words apart as well as I can.

One thing to remember is that people always advance technology. They cannot be stopped. After all, advancing technology is fun. Presently the range limit for passive RFID might be 10 m or 10 cm or whatever. I don't care if it is 1 mm. The fact is that there is another technology that engineers are chasing. That technology is ubiquitous networking. How far apart does my ubiquitous network device, i.e. cell phone, have to be from my RFID drivers license, to prevent me being tracked? The obvious answer is "not far". The answer that takes more to explain are the issues of common communication protocols and legislation. The common communication protocols are advanced by engineers such as yourself via IEEE working groups and strategic patenting. The legislation is worked out by elected officials. If that was all there is then the disparities of interest among the parties would place a practicle roadblock to RFID tracking. But that is not all there is. There is more as I pointed out in the Comcast throttling thread. The "more" is that the legislation isn't being worked out by the politicians anymore. Instead, legislation is being penned by lobbyists, e.g. ex-engineers and lawyers, while the politicians work on getting reelected.

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/06/02/far06004.html

Originally Posted by marmaduke1971

ebaconjr, what laws do you support ? You might want to list them. . .

The U.S. Constitution and all the laws that have formed under it.

Below is a link to our Constitution:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/

Originally Posted by marmaduke1971

[T]he 4th Amendment to the Constitution . . . guards against illegal searches and seizures, this card would not search your or seize you.

Marm,

Issues of search and seizure are independent of RFID. Fuck man, a steam locomotive can't search and seize anything either, but somehow our Founders saw the importance of search and seizure before the steam locomotive started moving people all over the place at then-untracable speeds. How did the Founders see to write what they did while they were looking at horse drawn carriages? Were their thoughts . . . crystallized? Are yours? Are mine? Are the peoples' on TTP? Are the peoples' behind RFID?

We will know the answer when each of us has reached within ourself and fought every fight that we can muster. Or one-by-one we could throw our hands in the air in frustration and instead subscribe to some shit on YouTube or TV or .... I vote for the first option. What you vote for is up to you and what everyone else votes for is up to them. In the end an idea will win. That is certain.