The war in Iraq...again

**jmw_man** · 08-29-08, 01:12 PM

Actually Jabberwock's points weren't all that bad.

The pwnt stuff was a little uncalled for especially since there is the slight possibility of easily pwning the ill-knowledged or un-informed so the best strategy here is to be informative.

TehSpaz made a good point too. We stayed in Europe after WWII for clean up duty and we are still there as well.... The same goes for Iraq. No point in arguing over the past, what's been done is done, discuss what to do from here on out.

During the olympics, they were talking about some places in China that have been experiencing some problems with terrorist bombings....it made me feel good to know that the rest of the world wasn't being left out.

**...bigdog...** · 08-29-08, 02:07 PM

I think the next thing I want to hear the presidential candidates bring up is....

#1. Basing options in the middle east. Obviously, Bin Laden was all pissed and motivated becuase of our infidel presence in Saudi Arabia. rumor has it, the Saudi's aren't very western friendly, anyway, and hardly appreciative of the protective shield having US forces in their country gives them. I say we remove that, and put it in a place that makes sense tactically as well as diplomatically. That's Iraq and/or Afghanistan. No more piddle paddling with turkey about overflight rights. No more begging for shoreline access to land soldiers and vehicles. Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan want to cause mess? We're right there in the neighborhood, and our female soldiers don't have to wear burka's when they leave the base.

#2. War reparations. Iraq owes us $100 billion or so. Maybe $200. What's the timeline for those oil revenues to start paying for the infrastructure, protection, training, and lives we've given them?

**jmw_man** · 08-29-08, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

and our female soldiers don't have to wear burka's when they leave the base.

A religious preference, not a cultural one, typically hijabs are more common...As I was told by a female muslim from Iraq who is a winner of the fulbright scholar and spoke at one of my classes during my final semester at Texas A&M. She also claimed that people have the assumption that women are submissive when in fact they tend to be more dominant than muslim males.

Other facts:

Iraq is not composed of only muslims, many christians live in Iraq.

Just because you are an Arab does not mean you are a Muslim.

Just because you are a Muslim does not mean you are an Arab.

Arabs do not make up the majority of Muslims.

Muslims do not make up the majority of Arabs.

**DonVitoJr** · 08-29-08, 03:23 PM

Dont forget about those who are serving and that have served. Heres a dedication done by me, CouchProductions.

Enjoy and grab some tissues before you watch it.

-DonVito :4

**jmw_man** · 08-29-08, 03:43 PM

I think that at this point, the war has turned from "taking Saddam out of power" and the people of Iraq loved us for it, now some want us to go while others don't but we are still there because we have to be the peace keepers to make sure that the country, its government, its laws, and law enforcement is stable enough to hold its own peace. Am I wrong in saying that there really isn't any fighting anymore, just roadside bombings. It seems everytime the news talk about it, they are saying that more soldiers died because of a roadside bomb, not a bullet. This isn't fighting, it's terrorism, but from whom?

**jmw_man** · 08-29-08, 03:46 PM

My first guess would be Islamic extremists...

**PizzaSHARK!** · 08-29-08, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

Originally Posted by TheBenDude37

Show this to an Anti-War person.

they won't read it.

if you read it, it's not possible to be a nut job war protestor....unless you're just doing it to look cool and get laid, which I guarantee 90% of every person out there is doing it for. To look cool.

Never underestimate the power of the pussy :P

**asianator365** · 08-29-08, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by TheBenDude37

Well to tell you the truth I don't know why the UN told us not to go to war.WE WERE ATTCKED!!! I guess the UN are mainly people with no LIFE.I don't know.

Ben, we've said this before: Iraq did not attack us. We went to war with them for different reasons.

**asianator365** · 08-29-08, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by jmw_man

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

and our female soldiers don't have to wear burka's when they leave the base.

A religious preference, not a cultural one, typically hijabs are more common...

You left out the part where you can be killed in some countries for not wearing one. Doesn't sound like a preference to me...

**jabberwock** · 08-29-08, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Funny how you quote everyone, but skip me. Wasn't Iraq in violation of UN sanctions by kicking weapons inspectors out of their country, and preventing them from searching as agreed? So we should follow the plan of the UN no matter what, and when a country that is potentially a threat to us or our allies does not we just look the other way because the UN does as well?

I know that 2 wrongs do not make a right, but if you are going to say the war is wrong because the UN did not support it then I will respond with the UN did not support Iraq having WMDs, or the capabilities to produce WMDs, and that is why there were inspectors in Iraq to begin with. Iraq then says F the UN, and the UN says OK, F us, what now? The US, UK, and a few other countries said let's do something, and most of the rest of the UN was too chicken S, or not a target.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0305-01.htm

First bit on Blix that I found. Hans Blix was the chief weapon inspector in the period leading up to Iraq 2, and stated that there was no reason to believe that Iraq had the capabilities to produce WMD's. He was one of the first to state that the war was illegal. Without just cause, where does that leave the moral barometer on starting the war?

Here's some more of Hans Blix, with Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy. Sorry these pages aren't CNN, but quotes, and transcripts are more readily availabe from other sources.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/2...inspector_hans

This discussion is on the Iraq war, and the Iraqi goverment posed no form of serious threat to anyone but their own people. If you want to get into other events, why not touch on the situation in Georgia, where the US government has chastised Russia for protecting two pro Moscow states wishing to leave Georgian rule. Georgia was the military aggressor before Russia moved to deny them. Where is a sense of fair play? Russia ended military action against their weaker allies.

Astrod00d, I do agree 100% that pulling out of Iraq now would be a serious error, as there is still not a solid foundation for the new government to flourish on. The mistakes made in funding the Afghanistan/Russia affair, and then dropping virtually all support when Russia withdrew should not be repeated. The reason I oppose the starting of the war is that Iraq never really posed a threat in the first place.

The only answer is to stay in the middle east until the job is done. If the Nations present don't stay to make sure it's done right, all the individuals who have lost their lives for that cause will have died for nothing.

To Tehspaz, and everyone else, I am sorry about the gloating tone I took. It was late, I was tired, and I was being a disrespectful shit. I didn't truly mean offense, some of the statements made were enough to get me riled up, and I posted what I did without enough thought.

If action is taken, you should stay to clean it right up. That's a given, and I would never ask to remove troops before it is actually time to. I just strongly question the start of the Iraq war, and that is my only issue with it. I fully support everyone over there, as their presence is for good, but it was the decision making that lead to the action that still leaves me wondering.

I was sleeping on this one...

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

When the shit hits the fan and military force is needed, who carries 80-90% of the load, we do.

Pakistan has been the largest contributor of UN forces for many years now, but here's the rundown from last year.

The 10 main troop-contributing countries to UN peacekeeping operations as of March 2007 were Pakistan (10,173), Bangladesh (9,675), India (9,471), Nepal (3,626), Jordan (3,564), Uruguay (2,583), Italy (2,539), Ghana, Nigeria and France.

Like I said, I hate these damn threads because I often get worked up about them. Sorry once again for my poor conduct. I think my main goal with that lippy crap was to rile up some more thought, and intelligent discussion. Asianators posts always interest me, because he provides reading material, as well as his personal opinions. I appreciate that immensely, and would like to see more of it. In any case, I think I'll put in an effort to avoid these discussions in the future. The last thing I want to do is piss off all of you great people whom I enjoy gaming, and conversing with.