Thread: Owned.

Originally Posted by CanadianPersian

Originally Posted by TehSpaz

Originally Posted by CanadianPersian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUw65VqTJZM

and you complain when you're not taken seriously?

"bra", get real.

lol i never complained about anything of the sort. i'm trying to lighten to mood. i'm done with this. the arguments keep perpetuating, so i'm ending it. agree to disagree.

Ya, you're done with this because you realize you are DEAD wrong. BTW, we were one of the top super powers BEFORE WWII. We were probably one of the top super powers RIGHT after we whooped Britain's ass for our Independence. Like everyone knows, at that time Britain was the super power.

And yes, the Iraqi's still want us there.. Hence why we are still there. We can't just take out their dictator and then up and leave them high and dry with no government or anything. Right now, we are getting to the point where we can slowly start bringing our troops home. We are pretty much putting the final touches on everything over there (govt, police training, military training, schooling..etc)

When we invaded Iraq and Saddam lit the oil wells on fire... Who put those out and rebuilt them? WE DID, without getting a single thing from them. And do not say this whole war is about oil, because that's bullshit... we didn't get a single drop of oil from them. You know it, I know it, the world knows it. If it was about oil, I wouldn't be paying almost $4/gallon. The U.S. only gets 3% of it's oil from the Middle East. The majority of our oil comes from South America, The Gulf, Alaska, and off the shore of Florida.

We do so much for other countries, but yet we get spit on by people like you... Who do not know a DAMN thing about the U.S. Quit believing shit you see on TV, go read and learn for yourself. The world couldn't survive without the U.S., I'm sorry. If we weren't around, who would stop Kim Jong-Il from launching a nuke right up Canada's ass (even though he wouldn't, Canada isn't worth a damn)?

I have lived in both Canada and the U.S. - and I can tell you for a fact that the U.S. is MUCH better. I was born in TX, but moved to Canada for 3 years (when I got there I was ahead of all the kids in school). When I moved back to the U.S., I was behind in school. The United States GDP is also better than Canada's (13X better to be exact). - http://www.data360.org/graph_group.a...h_Group_Id=348

Go grab some facts instead of spouting off shit that you hear from your friends and news networks. Go read.

For fuck's sake.

Hub just cold smoked your ass.

Originally Posted by BigH?b

do not say this whole war is about oil, because that's bullshit... we didn't get a single drop of oil from them. You know it, I know it, the world knows it. If it was about oil, I wouldn't be paying almost $4/gallon. The U.S. only gets 3% of it's oil from the Middle East. The majority of our oil comes from South America, The Gulf, Alaska, and off the shore of Florida.

Go grab some facts instead of spouting off shit that you hear from your friends and news networks. Go read.

For fuck's sake.

Facts =
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...im0_mbbl_m.htm

Try closer to 18% comes from the persian gulf.
Iraq averages close to a total of %5 of our total oil imports all by itself.

And more important than that is to look at the structure of Oil power players.
Mainly OPEC vs Non-Opec
Notice how Iraq is now a happy member of OPEC.
Which is, anyone can admit, a price fixing operation.

Now think larger than the US.
Think global.
Oil/Gas companies sell black gold all over the globe.
Some really really big players in that game are based here in the states.
I leave it up to you guys to figure out who their friends are in government.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_115176.html
Now why is it important that IRAQ be a player in this price fix game?
They are a major producer in oil globally.
So if they were selling oil cheaper...
And the market responds...
The price fixers have to lower their prices...
And the corporations lose out.
US corporations.
Which pay your government big bucks.
The same corporations who dont give a damn if you pay 4$ at the pump.
Thats a few more bucks on their stock.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/bu...8b0&ei=5087%0A
So in the end, to avoid any missing profits -
the big oil interests swayed us into war.
We can call it 'liberation' if we want.
Installing a democracy.
Whatever.
Fact is there are a lot of places that were/still are just as bad as IRAQ was.
But we don't do much liberation there do we?
Remember Afghanistan? That place we are still at war in too?
Why is it important?
http://www.newhumanist.com/oil.html
Only one of the most critical oil trade routes on the globe.
But hey, they have terrorists too, dont forget that.

So if you look at it from the oil companies perspective.
Which is where a lot of your politicians made their fortunes -
Your friends and family in the military are risking their lives 'liberating' -
And they make some more money.

Im not gonna come in here and debate a thing about the hoax, oh I mean election.
A fake and crook. One picked to lose, the other set to continue raping the American people.
Sure is a fun show to watch.

You've got my respect Hub, always have, but follow your own words -

"Go grab some facts instead of spouting off. Go read."

Also, your government is turning Democracy as it should be into a capitalist machine designed to sacrifice people in the name of 'free markets'.
With just enough PC spin to keep people believing.
Don't hate America, that is our blood and namesake, but hate what is being done in her name.

_Burn_ - I stand corrected then, I took a college class 2 or 3 years ago and the prof told us that we get 3% of our oil from the Middle East. It has either changed since then, or he lied to us. Either way, 18% still isn't shit.

Then you say -

Originally Posted by _BuRn_

I leave it up to you guys to figure out who their friends are in government.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_115176.html

And what does this have to do with anything? Exxon Mobil barely contributes to shit compared to the other big hitters in politics. Exxon AND Chevron is pretty much at the bottom of the list. They don't influence shit.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

Originally Posted by _BuRn_

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/bu...8b0&ei=5087%0A
So in the end, to avoid any missing profits -
the big oil interests swayed us into war.
We can call it 'liberation' if we want.
Installing a democracy.
Whatever.

Read above. That article doesn't say anything and certainly doesn't back up that big oil interests swayed us into the war. Prove it. I'll prove my side.

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So here is my take on the whole WMD thing. To put it in terms more of us can understand, let's assume that you are into illegal drugs. you get arrested, and part of your probation is that you are subject to random home searches at any time the police request. The police show up once, and you are not home, so no search. The police show up a second time, and you pretend not to be home, so no search. The police show up a third time, and you tell them they can't come in right now, so no search. You then get word that the local SWAT team is coming to raid your house by any means necessary within the next two weeks. You look around at all the drugs, and drug paraphernalia lying around, and have a choice to make. Do you A) just leave it there, and hope to get by with it, or do you B) get rid of it and hide it? I think we all know the answer, and my money is on the fact that Saddam did too.

I've been saying this for years. People just couldnt understand. Option C) Stash it at a friends house (cough, russia maybe, cough)

Very nice post.

Exactly.

The game soy soldier, and any war opponent, has to pull to find some excuse for protest it to make it out like Iraq is a war on terrorism. Or that it's a war on al queda. Or that it's a war on islam.

Maybe today, 6 years after the fact.....that's easy to wash over. Just like 200 years after the civil war, it's easy to say it was about slavery (when it wasn't). Or that WWII was about saving jews (which is wasn't). Or that we "lost" the vietnam war (which we didn't).

Go back to the day of, the week of, the year of these issues....and read what was being said. Not the "Greatest hits" summaries of today, where people are trying to keep their media jobs so they use sound bytes and one liners, on both sides, to generalize the situation towards or against an agenda.

Gulf War II was initiated by inspectors. Inspectors being blocked, being arrested, being thrown out, being lied to, being delayed, being _______, being anything other than given a complete and total key to the country to go wherever the hell they wanted, when they wanted, and look for bad stuff. That was the deal Sadaam agreed to. And regardless of him agreeing to it, that was the deal mandated by the UNSC and IAEA. Those were the rules. He spit on them, forced even more UNSC activity against him, allowed a coalition to be formed against him, and talked up his game so much that the war occurred.

If you even call it a war. More like a typical middle eastern conflict, over in a week because those involved are lazy and too sissy or ill equipped to finish their jobs. That wasn't the case with us....which perhaps he was stupid enough to think would occur.

Calling it a war on terror......is misleading. Are there terrorists in Iraq now? Yes. Is Al Quadeauaaua in Iraq? Of course. Zarqawi anyone? So, the war on terror is occurring in Iraq, because that's where terrorists currently are. It's irrelevant if they were there prior to the war, since the UNSC resolutions were dominated by breach of WMD, inspector, and oil related obligations, and NOT Sadaam's support of terror.

Obviously...now that his regime is over....the only real issue in Iraq IS the terrorists. Iraqi SAMs aren't locking on and shooting down american fighters (something Sadaam was in breach for doing). Iraqi operatives aren't acquiring and developing WMDs and bioweapons (yet another breach Sadaam was guilty of). Iraqi goverment officials aren't oppressing the Kurds and Shiites, torturing them, executing them, persecuting them, or blocking them from land, business, and asset ownership (which Sadaam's Sunni regime was most certainly doing). So what else is left to do in Iraq?

Kill the mother fuckers who think it's fun to blow up markets, restaurants, police stations, and US military service people. Everything else is checked off the list, thus terrorism becomes the ONLY issue to discuss militarily, and the ONLY issue for the anti-war protesters to hold onto.

Too bad it's irrelevant from the start. A misguided attempt to take a winnable argument (that the Iraq war was false because terrorism didn't exist or stem from iraq prior to the war), and reverse-argue it back to the original context of the war, which is hardcoded into legitimate resolutions, acts of congress, and material breach.

A joke. But.....it's complicated to fight back against it (see above)...so you don't see people taking the time to get out there and do it. Sure, nutjobs like Hannity will do so. Oreilly from time to time as well. And of course the right wing talk circuit will do it too......but if CBS, NBC, ABC, and their affiliates are all "on message" in saying we "failed in Iraq because we didn't find WMD's" or that the "war on terror" started the Iraq war..........eventually it becomes common law for everyone to agree with, simply because that's all they hear. Most especially those in highschool when the war started, now being the impressionable, activist 20 something youth of today.

I would of typed it out, but bigdog nailed it right on the head.

Originally Posted by _BuRn_

So if you look at it from the oil companies perspective.
Which is where a lot of your politicians made their fortunes -
Your friends and family in the military are risking their lives 'liberating' -
And they make some more money.

Laughable.

Regarding the war/terrorism, I still believe what was stated before:

http://www.texasteamplayers.com/inde...6034#msg506034

Originally Posted by Menoske

I honestly just have 1 question for you, what in the fuck has Canada ever done to help the world? Am I saying that American did everything the right way? No. But by god at least we're trying to help.


Tell me how many times Canada has gone out to help countries in need bro? And tell me how many people know about them?

Quite frankly your a fucking idiot, do some research before you spout off that kind of shit