$700 Billion Bailout for Financial Firms

**Potemkine** · 09-29-08, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. – Ronald Reagan (1986)

Don't quote Reagan on economics.  His plan was detrimental in the long run.  Short term it was fine and dandy.  But long term?  PA LEASE. His Reaganomics is what caused the financial bust in the early 90's when Bush senior was president.  Raise spending and cut taxes?  Doesn't work without getting a recession.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The federal reserve is unconstitutional and is one of the major causes of our current crisis.

Our constitution reads:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5 grants only to Congress the power "To coin Money [and] regulate the Value thereof", with no provision for such power to be delegated to any other group.

Article 1, Section 10: "No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts".

Thus, the Constitution forbade the States from accepting or using anything other than a Gold and Silver based currency.

Yes and no.  The issue of Article 1, Section 8 is a non issue because the federal government actually controls the federal reserve which controls the money supply.  Go watch the History Channel special on the US currency.

As for Section 10..... go blame FDR.  He is the one who took us off the gold standard in an effort to jump start the economy in the depression.

Sound a little familiar?

**MotoZ** · 09-29-08, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The market is not broken because it does not work, it is broken because the federal reserve broke it.

Blammo. Bullseye.

Greenspan laid it all out in his book. Of course most people didn't read it. They just got the Cliff's Notes version on TV or teh net. Greenspan, a staunch neoconservative Republican, advocated a low interest rate and deregulation to spur creative destuctionism. Now the little bespectacled weasel is pointing fingers and saying that the regulators weren't doing their jobs. And he'll probably get away with it because people don't read anymore. They just listen to sound bites between advertisements for get rich quick and penis growth scams. GRRRRR.

At least a majority of the Republican house members had the kahonas to vote for their constituents instead of their campaign contributors. Or at least that's how they voted today. But then they had to go put that "Pelosi made me do it" spin on it after the vote. Why don't they just tell their voters what the fu** is going on? It's so frustrating to watch voters get played like a fiddle.

I get so excited about this stuff I need to go breath in a paper bag for a moment.

**Potemkine** · 09-29-08, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The market is not broken because it does not work, it is broken because the federal reserve broke it.

Blammo. Bullseye.

Greenspan laid it all out in his book. Of course most people didn't read it. They just got the Cliff's Notes version on TV or teh net. Greenspan, a staunch neoconservative Republican, advocated a low interest rate and deregulation to spur creative destuctionism. Now the little bespectacled weasel is pointing fingers and saying that the regulators weren't doing their jobs. And he'll probably get away with it because people don't read anymore. They just listen to sound bites between advertisements for get rich quick and penis growth scams. GRRRRR.

At least a majority of the Republican house members had the kahonas to vote for their constituents instead of their campaign contributors. Or at least that's how they voted today. But then they had to go put that "Pelosi made me do it" spin on it after the vote. Why don't they just tell their voters what the fu** is going on? It's so frustrating to watch voters get played like a fiddle.

I get so excited about this stuff I need to go breath in a paper bag for a moment.

OK just for the record books how did the Federal Reserve break it? How?

**MotoZ** · 09-29-08, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by JimboIncinerator

Hopefully hasn't been posted already.

It's been posted...twice. Third is a charm, though.

**Muqtar SGT_Clintok** · 09-29-08, 09:14 PM

The URL is going to be distributed around these parts. Virginia.

Nice post Jimbo. It took me three overlooked posts to watch it, so it served its purpose.

**JimboIncinerator** · 09-29-08, 09:15 PM

Quote from: Agamemnon on 09/26/08, 02:36 PM
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. – Ronald Reagan (1986)

Don't quote Reagan on economics. His plan was detrimental in the long run. Short term it was fine and dandy. But long term? PA LEASE. His Reaganomics is what caused the financial bust in the early 90's when Bush senior was president. Raise spending and cut taxes? Doesn't work without getting a recession.

Link of for revenue of the US for the past X number of years.
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/charts.html

Now if im not mistaken... bush cut taxes relatively soon after he was in office (dont know exact time somebody should look). The governments revenue has skyrocketed!! Interesting isn't it.

One usually thinks that if you raise taxes you get more money... O to the contrary. When you cut taxes everybody has more money. In turn they spend more because people are not all that good at saving. Now when it comes to a business, they turn around re-invest and grow . This brings them more gross income which in turn the government gets more money from the taxes. And it just keeps feeding itself, which is very good.

If you increase taxes to much or too rapidly, there is less money in there pockets, they grow slower, or worse go into the red. If they continue this they make less and the government gets less.

And on a final, but related note, its not the governments job to bail out business, if they screw up they pay the price, simple as that. Doing so would begin us down a slippery slope toward socialism, which should never happen in this great country.

The problem is all of the good peoples money gets taken down with it.

**JimboIncinerator** · 09-29-08, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by JimboIncinerator

Hopefully hasn't been posted already.

It's been posted...twice. Third is a charm, though.

Sorry about that....

**SapiensErus** · 09-29-08, 09:18 PM

I have been under the impression that the current administration's massive deregulation of the housing loan industry to encourage an "ownership society" is what caused these problems. But my understanding of economics is limited...

**MotoZ** · 09-29-08, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Potemkine

OK just for the record books how did the Federal Reserve break it? How?

Read Greenspan's book. I'm fair with analogies, but distilling five hundred pages of politics and whacked philosophies is out of my league. Why? Because despite five hundred pages it didn't make a lick of common sense. Analogies have to make sense.

It's kind of like a rhino with a pancake on his head doing a two-step to disco music in the morning. I could tell you, but you wouldn't believe it coming from me.

**Potemkine** · 09-29-08, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by JimboIncinerator

Quote from: Agamemnon on 09/26/08, 02:36 PM
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. – Ronald Reagan (1986)

Don't quote Reagan on economics. His plan was detrimental in the long run. Short term it was fine and dandy. But long term? PA LEASE. His Reaganomics is what caused the financial bust in the early 90's when Bush senior was president. Raise spending and cut taxes? Doesn't work without getting a recession.

Link of for revenue of the US for the past X number of years.
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/charts.html

Now if im not mistaken... bush cut taxes relatively soon after he was in office (dont know exact time somebody should look). The governments revenue has skyrocketed!! Interesting isn't it.

Where are you seeing sky rocketed?

I am seeing a bounce back and forth....then an increase starting in 2004. How much of that though is due to inflation, or redefined taxes? Plus it is taking into consideration 2009 and 2010. Last time I checked it was the end of September 2008 2009 if far off still, and it is not taking into consideration current conditions.