Obama quotes

**MotoZ** · 10-14-08, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Consultant

First, I am not a scholar of deregulation. I do not know how it works. That's not my bag.

I can relate it to other market areas though - when Cable Television was deregulated, wasn't that the beginning of free market competition and competitive pricing?
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That wasn't an effective deregulation post - but I don't have time for more.

It was effective enough. I'm seeing a pattern develop.

It appears that there is misunderstanding among Republicans as to what "deregulation" is. That's not a bad thing. It's an opportunity to make some good of this thread.

You and Civil each showed utilities as examples of deregulation. Civil used electrical and you used cable companies. In both of those cases it is true (I'm taking you guys at your words) that the utility started out as a regulated monopoly. Therefore if you wanted electricity you had to get it from the monopoly. Same for cable. When customers started to feel that they were getting ripped off the people voted to change the game. What they did was break up the regulated monopoly to spur competition and called it "deregulation".

That kind of deregulation is not the same kind of deregulation that exists for hedge funds and what the Republican party is pushing. The deregulation that Republicans are pushing can be thought of as "competition with relaxed rules". The theory is that the market will discover what is best and price accordingly. While that might be true in a simple textbook economy, some argue that it doesn't work when applied to large economies with large influential corporations. They say that "competition with relaxed rules" produces speculative bubbles that damage our economy.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Instead I'm hoping to get people more in tune with what the politicians are saying when they use certain words.

**CivilWars** · 10-14-08, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

They say that "competition with relaxed rules" produces speculative bubbles that damage our economy.

So if these are only supported by Republicans how did we get the tech bubble under Clinton?

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-14-08, 05:44 PM

okay so then tell me how capitalism would work? how can you open your own burger shack if for example, McDonalds were to hold a monopoly over the burger shack industry. Remember folks capitalism is no regulation at all, ever. though i mean if you wanna go back to where we have our markets ran by Standard Oil, Carnegie Steel, General Eltric, later the United States Steel Corporation and so on, then be my guest

**CivilWars** · 10-14-08, 05:47 PM

Um, I think there was regulation when all those companies existed. So you are telling me that you are not allowed to open a burger restaurant or gas station right now? Who is stopping you? Who would stop you based on whatever your speculation is? Is Ronald going to break your legs if you open up a competing restaurant?

**MotoZ** · 10-14-08, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So if these are only supported by Republicans how did we get the tech bubble under Clinton?

The tech bubble was caused by a new technology. We didn't know what it was worth, but we damn sure were excited and invested tons of money in it. It took about five or six years for us to play with it and value it accordingly. Politics had nothing to do with that bubble. It was pure discovery and excitement.

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-14-08, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Um, I think there was regulation when all those companies existed. So you are telling me that you are not allowed to open a burger restaurant or gas station right now? Who is stopping you? Who would stop you based on whatever your speculation is? Is Ronald going to break your legs if you open up a competing restaurant?

uhh are we in a capitalistic system right now? did i say we are in capitalist system right now? *look around* hey no i didn't! omg!!!!

I'm getting tired of this capitalism this, and capitalism that. captialism doesn't work and again listen to the definition of capitalism, All private owned with no government interference. So if you believe we should have some regulation why are you bitching? because if you believe in having some regulation then we agree that mixed markets work. Capitalism doesn't work.

**CivilWars** · 10-14-08, 05:57 PM

So then it sounds like to me the speculative bubbles that damage our economy are not strictly a result of Reps or their capitalist agenda if they can happen by chance anyway.

Red,

You are right, I totally forgot about all the burger regulations. Please forgive me.

**MotoZ** · 10-14-08, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So then it sounds like to me the speculative bubbles that damage our economy are not strictly a result of Reps or their capitalist agenda if they can happen by chance anyway.

There's a big difference between a bubble happening and creating one.

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-14-08, 06:07 PM

wow i see a person can't use examples in this forum, that eans you must be only talking about that industry

. I used McDonalds and Burger King as an example for two reasons. First being they are well known and everywhere, and second i'm hungry right now. The point is that WE ARE NOT CAPITALIST, we have a mix market, with regulations like this thing called anti-trust laws. See Capitalist don't believe in anti-trust laws and thats why Ronald could push out anyone else if we wanted to in the fast food burger industry in a capitalist market

**CivilWars** · 10-14-08, 06:12 PM

Except for the fact that if I build a better burger system at a better price you being hungry will come to my store, not Ronald's. Ronald then has 2 choices, lose business, or build a better value by lowering prices or increasing quality. So you still win by getting Ronald's burgers at my prices. Win/win. How would Ronald prevent me from competing? Would he buy all the cows, all the buns, or what? I am just wanting to know from any example how in a capitalist society another company can keep my company from capitalizing.

Now if you want to argue that by their sheer volume McDonald's can offer better food at lower prices, and therefore I could in no way compete with them I will somewhat agree, but then they would be the best value, and capitalism would be achieved that the best value wins out. Then if they stop being the best value someone that is a better value will spring up and begin to steal market share yet again.