Thread: Election over...

Oh, and just for shits and grins, lemme add this in here...

For the record, I don't really think that the minimum wage really ought to be increased.

Yeah, I know, jaws are a dropping all over right now.

What I DO think is, there ought to be caps on prices. Lemme work it out for ya.

Person "A" comes out with some handy-dandy new widget, that really isn't ESSENTIAL for living, but sure is nice to have. Well, it's brand spanking new and they want to make their billions off it, so, what they do is price it so that only the really rich can afford it. Which they can and do. So, when it's outlived it's usefulness to the rich and they focus their attention on some other new status symbol, person "A" then lowers the price, just a smidge, so that the not so really rich can now afford it, which then makes it a status symbol for them. Then, they too, outlive it and the price goes down again. Until IT also is outlived at that level too. So on and so forth.

What does this have to do with minimum wage you ask? Simple. The people who were hired to MAKE that widget for greedy bastard son-of-a-bitch person "A" are getting paid minumum wage to make them widgets. They get fed up of working their asses off for no profit and they see person "A" drive to work in a brand new Hummer with all the bells and whistles, and they demand a raise. Well, obviously, that brand new, tricked out Hummer is not a NECESSITY, but rather, a status symbol so that person "A" can say, 'Hey, look at me! I made it and here's my proof!'

Well, sure enough, when he finally capitulates to the raises, he turns to himself and says, 'Well, damn, that just cut into my profit margins. No worries, I'll just raise the price again to make up for the loss of the raises.' Forget the fact that he's making waaaaaay more than he abosolutely could ever spend in a single lifetime, his profits (and by extension, his Hummers and whatever other toys) are more important than the welfare of his employees.

THAT, sir, is how we are getting fucked over. Every fucking day. And every fucking day it gets worse.

Now, I'll grant you, that may just be one situation, but, it is the basic framework for how all the 'big businesses' think and operate. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see it. They even flaunt their prosperity openly, daring people to challenge THEIR decision making process. Hell, the makers of the Hummer themselves are EXACTLY the same. They made an assload of money (and still are) off the US Government and whatever other countries order their military grade equipment, and now their doing to everyday Americans too.

As an 18 year old who's graduated from high school and still can't find a new job, I hope they do raise wages so when I do actually find a job I won't be dirt poor trying to get my journalism degree, hell, I want to be able to actually GET my journalism degree.

Reason I can't find a job? Economy. And in my other post I compared this to the great depression, and the reason I did that is because look at what is happening now compared to what happened then. The reason our economy is failing is not because people keep raising their prices to make more and more money (hell they don't even control that, US, the consumers do. Supply and demand ring a bell?), but because of the same reasons as back then. We spent too much money, we borrowed too much money, and we just couldn't stop while we were ahead. And yes, the "war on terror" contributed to this. And yes, Mr. President made it worse. But please no one blame only the Republicans. While our economy was good while Clinton was in office the signs of a decline were evident even then. Us thickheaded americans just chose to ignore it, like we do most our problems.


P.S. Anyone else get a laugh at our legislature celebrating passing a bill? haha. That's like us celebrating clicking a button and killing a guy, isn't that what we're supposed to do in our games?

Originally Posted by Mudstalker

As an 18 year old who's graduated from high school and still can't find a new job, I hope they do raise wages so when I do actually find a job I won't be dirt poor trying to get my journalism degree, hell, I want to be able to actually GET my journalism degree.

I was in high school working at McDonalds making more than minimum wage.

So if you want to find a minimum wage job go for it. But look around.

Originally Posted by Consultant

And if minimum wage is increased, it will cause salary compression among other low-wage earners...every other hourly wage in America won't be bumped up to match whatever increase comes to minimum wage.

HA!!! I needed a good laugh, thanks!


You, obviously, are not familiar with trickle down effects and how they apply to the workforce. I don't care what you link/quote, it can be seen by the average person. Sudden, unexplained raises that coincidentally coincide with the increase of minimum wages. If you don't believe me, why don't you just check out the statistics post the last increase in minimum wage....how many years ago??

Originally Posted by Consultant

Originally Posted by Mudstalker

As an 18 year old who's graduated from high school and still can't find a new job, I hope they do raise wages so when I do actually find a job I won't be dirt poor trying to get my journalism degree, hell, I want to be able to actually GET my journalism degree.

Reason I can't find a job? Economy.

If you settle for a minimum wage job, you will have to live on a tight budget - God forbid.Sometimes it isn't settling. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm And sometimes it isn't the choices YOU make.

And if minimum wage is increased, it will cause salary compression among other low-wage earners...every other hourly wage in America won't be bumped up to match whatever increase comes to minimum wage.NO. Quite the opposite occurs, it is called "SPILLOVER EFFECT". employers raise the wages of workers earning above the new minimum wage in order to preserve internal wage structures.

For some insight into why raising the minimum wage is bad - I suggest the following.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba499/ (written in 1995 but still fundamentally sound)

http://www.heritage.org/Research/labor/EM590.cfm (written in 1999, but again - still fundamentally sound)Pffft....Yeah these guys don't have have a pro business bias or slant, do they?

And from the sound of your politics, you'd fit right in with whatever journalistic media outlet you choose to join post-graduation. I hope you got good enough grades in high school and high enough standard testing scores to get some scholarships. If not, I suggest looking into student loans.

Have to raise the BULLSHIT flag once again. Contrary to what the "Heritage Foundation" says, raising of the minimum wage will not/did not cost jobs.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfe...imum_wage_2004

Employment Outcomes: Does the Minimum Wage Hurt Small Businesses?

Despite the fact that contemporary economic research casts a long shadow of doubt on the contention that moderate minimum wage increases cause job losses, opponents still lead with this argument. This so-called “disemployment” argument is particularly difficult to maintain given two relatively recent developments in the history of minimum wages. First, the quality of empirical minimum wage research rose steeply over the last decade, due largely to economists’ ability to conduct pseudo-experiments3. Such experiments, rare in empirical economics, typically utilize the fact that numerous states (12 as of today) have raised their minimum wage above that of the federal level. This variation between states gives researchers a chance to isolate the impact of the wage change and test its impact on employment and other relevant outcomes. As stressed in the Card and Krueger book cited above, these studies reveal employment elasticities that hover about zero, i.e., they solidly reject the conventional hypothesis that any increase in the minimum wage leads to job losses among affected workers.

Second, following the most recent increase legislated in 1996, the low-wage labor market performed better than it had in decades. The fact that the employment and earnings opportunities of low-wage workers grew so quickly following that increase continues to pose a daunting challenge to those who still maintain that minimum wage increases hurt their intended beneficiaries.

Recently, the Fiscal Policy Institute (FPI) released a study of the impact of higher minimum wages on small businesses4. Their analysis focuses on various outcomes for businesses with less than 50 employees, comparing these outcomes between states with minimum wages above the Federal level and those at the Federal level. If the theory that higher minimum wages hurt small businesses is correct, then we would expect there to be less growth in such enterprises in states with higher minimum wages. In fact, as shown in Figure 5, the opposite is the case.

• Between 1998 and 2001, the number of small business establishments grew twice as quickly in states with higher minimum wages (3.1% vs. 1.6%).
• Employment grew 1.5% more quickly in high minimum wage states.
• Annual and average payroll growth was also faster in higher minimum wage states.



FPI presents similar results for small businesses in the retail sector.

In related research, Waltman, et al. (1998) examine the relationship between business failures and minimum wage increases5. Here again, claims by business-community opponents of the minimum wage suggest that business failures should increase along with minimum wage increases. But in examining this relationship over more than 30 years, Waltman et al conclude that:

“…there seems to be no discernible correlation between minimum wage increases and a rise in business failures, either in the year the increase occurred or in the following year. If anything, the evidence leans the other way”