Getting worried

**Gumby** · 11-04-08, 02:27 PM

back on topic here (I think the Libertarian discussion should be in another thread)
Americans may be divided on key issues, but we are still the UNITED States.
That is what makes us unique and why our Constitution is the oldest written constitution that is still in use in the world. We bicker and argue before and during an election, but we come together afterward like no one else in the world.

**Mudstalker** · 11-04-08, 02:29 PM

I'm watching Election HQ on Fox News and they were talking about conservatives voting for Obama and Liberals voting for McCain, it happens every election.

As for what you stated above. I was a supporter of Ron Paul, but he didn't make it

**Consultant** · 11-04-08, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mudstalker

I'm watching Election HQ on Fox News and they were talking about conservatives voting for Obama and Liberals voting for McCain, it happens every election.

As for what you stated above. I was a supporter of Ron Paul, but he didn't make it

I would PM this question, but would HATE to get accused of asking you for advice - so here'goes.

Irrespective of McCain, how did you make the logical leap in style and policy methodology from a borderline radical republican/libertarian like Ron Paul to Barack Obama?

And if the answer is simply that you hate McCain THAT much, then fine...but how do you stomach the difference in policy dynamics between a Ron Paul and a Barack Obama?

I have to be honest, I was a Ron Paul guy too. I was hoping for a Romney/Paul ticket.

**MotoZ** · 11-04-08, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Consultant

How many registered republicans do you think are voting for Obama?

How many registered democrats do you think are voting for McCain?

To me, in my ignorance, it seems like it's pretty cut and dried along party lines.

They are having a competition to see who can drum up the most excitement over their respective campaigns within their respective voting blocs.

Party lines certainly provide the baseline numbers. The campaign managers then duke it out over the swing voters. For example, one of the things that the Obama campaign did was bring faith into the Democratic ticket. That was a new tactic. On the Republican side they brought in Palin to pull Hillary supporters.

It's all a game to get the swing votes.

In the local elections its a different story. Those people campaign a little closer to the issues.

**Mudstalker** · 11-04-08, 03:31 PM

Like I've said before, I'm not a liberal or democrat (no the two do not go hand in hand), nor am I a Republican.

But I was undecided until multiple things happened.

-I noticed McCain changing his mind on ALOT of issues.
-I noticed McCain suddenly seemed like he was reading a script written by the devil Cheney himself.
-McCain didn't go with his first choices as possible running mates and instead went with someone the Republican party chose for him, someone he only met twice.
(not bashing on McCain as a person, I really liked him in 2000, just think he's giving in to the Republican party to try and win the "christian" vote thinking he can win that way)
-And when I actually listened to some of Obama's idea's (I know they're for a more active government, but the Republican party is supposed to be all about small government and they've been more active lately then anyone, pushing things like flag burning and stuff about the Pledge of Allegiance in school, and the Patriot Act, putting us further and further in debt with new plans and new orginizations that we don't really need and all they do is control our lives more. Basically everything their party is supposed to be against happening) they made sense for the times, not saying I think they would ALWAYS work, but for now they fit and I think he could actually at least bring us to the first step of getting our country out of debt and supplying jobs and hopefully getting us out of a war that in my opinion was a waste of money from the start.

**Mudstalker** · 11-04-08, 03:32 PM

In short and probably alot less jumbled than that, Obama has made alot of promises to me and millions of other Americans and unlike the current McCain we're seeing I believe he can keep at least the ones that really matter.

**~~hawgballs~~** · 11-04-08, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

Left wingers hate Libertarians because small government is the mail goal of the Libertarian party and that is the exact opposite of the goals of left wingers. The main tenet of the Libertarianism is that we have 10 amendments, not 9. Enforcement of the 10th amendment would solve about 90% of our countries problems.

And why do right wingers not like libertarians? Probably because libertarians don't like the domestic spying, telling people who and how to fuck and when, and they definitely don't like the destruction of the seperation of church and state. This is what I gather at least.

**Red_Lizard2** · 11-04-08, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by Gumby

Left wingers hate Libertarians because small government is the mail goal of the Libertarian party and that is the exact opposite of the goals of left wingers. The main tenet of the Libertarianism is that we have 10 amendments, not 9. Enforcement of the 10th amendment would solve about 90% of our countries problems.

And why do right wingers not like libertarians? Probably because libertarians don't like the domestic spying, telling people who and how to fuck and when, and they definitely don't like the destruction of the seperation of church and state. This is what I gather at least.

Funny thing is the people i've known that are libertarians hate the current republican party for the reason of they have walked all over the constitution and stayed within the powers vested by it. In other words what you said but in a less crude way

**Watsyurdeal?** · 11-04-08, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mudstalker

Like I've said before, I'm not a liberal or democrat (no the two do not go hand in hand), nor am I a Republican.

But I was undecided until multiple things happened.

-I noticed McCain changing his mind on ALOT of issues.
-I noticed McCain suddenly seemed like he was reading a script written by the devil Cheney himself.
-McCain didn't go with his first choices as possible running mates and instead went with someone the Republican party chose for him, someone he only met twice.
(not bashing on McCain as a person, I really liked him in 2000, just think he's giving in to the Republican party to try and win the "christian" vote thinking he can win that way)
-And when I actually listened to some of Obama's idea's (I know they're for a more active government, but the Republican party is supposed to be all about small government and they've been more active lately then anyone, pushing things like flag burning and stuff about the Pledge of Allegiance in school, and the Patriot Act, putting us further and further in debt with new plans and new orginizations that we don't really need and all they do is control our lives more. Basically everything their party is supposed to be against happening) they made sense for the times, not saying I think they would ALWAYS work, but for now they fit and I think he could actually at least bring us to the first step of getting our country out of debt and supplying jobs and hopefully getting us out of a war that in my opinion was a waste of money from the start.

I wouldn't worry too much, Obama's going to win most likely. And I guess I'm ok with it, just worried whether or not he knows what he's doing.

**Blakeman** · 11-04-08, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by Gumby

Left wingers hate Libertarians because small government is the mail goal of the Libertarian party and that is the exact opposite of the goals of left wingers. The main tenet of the Libertarianism is that we have 10 amendments, not 9. Enforcement of the 10th amendment would solve about 90% of our countries problems.

And why do right wingers not like libertarians? Probably because libertarians don't like the domestic spying, telling people who and how to fuck and when, and they definitely don't like the destruction of the seperation of church and state. This is what I gather at least.

I consider myself fairly conservative and right wing and I like the libertarian views, but do not believe they have enough support of the people in order to achieve the goals that they set forth as a party. The two parties in power now have a stranglehold on the uninformed and it isn't going to change. Mostly I voted for McCain to vote against Obama, I dont like everything McCain has said he will do, but I oppose the majority of Obama's views.