Thread: firearm foundation?

ok you gun nuts, here's some more naddle for your noodle... :P

after all the rifle, legislation, 2nd amendment, etc talk that's dotted the forums recently, of course it all got me thinking as well. so what i was thinking, in the very least, was to work on a base/foundation of gun types to cover all situations. admittedly, i've found myself taking blakeman's posts with the most conveyance. when i say base/foundation, i mean generically covering calibers, situations, etc. as it stands now from what i have sort of inherited from my dad passing are a 9mm handgun and a .22 rifle/plinker...so i figure that covers small caliber and handguns. so the rest of the base that i was figuring was large caliber rifle, shotgun and assault rifle. after all the good posts and my own research, it seems a .308 WIN (7.62x51?) would be the most practical large caliber, as it would allow the ammo pool to be shared between the large caliber rifle and the assault rifle. what i think i have narrowed candidates to are...

shotgun: general consensus seems to agree on a remington 870 on being a good gun. so any recommendations, as after poking around on the remington site there are a whole slew of models in the 870 line? i would be leaning more towards overall general purpose, ie, something good for home defense, but as well as being taken out on a hunt from fowl to buck.

large caliber rifle: additionally, remington seems to take a consensus on this as well, notably the 700 series. while poking around on the site for these, there were several that piqued my interest for this realm: 700, 750, 770, 7600. 700 being tried-and-true bolt action, as well as the 770 appearing to be a 'gun noob' rifle, in that its somewhat based on the 700 series, but is essentially ready to go out-of-the-box, scope and all. the 750 bushmaster, which is an autoloader and the 7600 which is pump action.

assault rifle: again after blakeman's ramblins with cost, reliability, etc i think i have narrowed this to a saiga 308. the "AR"s are nice and all, but costs are just significantly higher to justify it for me (ie, for the same price as one AR or M1A, the above 870, 700 and saiga 308 could be had or at least by my calculations/research :P )

sooo, thoughts/ideas? good, bad, ugly? i guess my only other question at this point, from the presented information would be in regards to the 'large caliber rifle' selections...in that, since the ideal plan is to get a 308 assault rifle, would the 750 and 7600 choices be redundant, thus just stick with the bolt action 700/770 for that option?

oh yeah, what is the best/recommended way to purchase? cash/check/moneyorder/credit/etc? i figure the 'regular' guns could be had at basspro shop and/or walmart, <insert outdoor store>, etc. the assault rifle i imagine i would have to find a gun shop/dealer? the online shops i keep reading about being able to ship to a local FFL, etc. as so, the assault rifle seems like it would be the hardest to get, with the possibility of it being even harder in a few months, so that will more than likely be the first purchase (assuming i follow through with all this)...so what would be my easiest route(s) for that initial assault rifle purchase? and if it makes any difference to any of this post, i live in VA.

thanks in advance.

A lot of info here. I will respond when I can give it the time it deserves.

Well, my two cents:

870 Express is a great gun for the money, and a nice smooth action. But, my Mossberg 590 Mariner (stainless) didn't cost much more, and has been exactly what I wanted from a maintainance standpoint. The 870 gets rust spots even when its oiled- humidity and it don't get along. The 590 just happily sits in my closet stoked and ready for business, comes out to play once and a while, and never gives a lick of a problem.

Don't forget to keep your eyes open for good used guns. My choice .308 is a Weatherby MkV stainless that I picked up with a stainless Leopold Vari-X-III scope for less than the cost of the rifle new by itself. Look for estate sales and guys getting divorced...

For semi-auto, I prefer the accuracy and flexibility of an AR to the AK's. IIRC you're mechanically inclined, right? Build yourself a platform: VLTOR club-foot modstock, receiver from Stag, bushmaster, or rock river. Nice ergo pistol grip, and a 2-stage match trigger group. Costs a little more, but worth it in the long run. Now, you can build a couple of uppers and just pop in whichever one floats your boat that day- A 16" carbine upper in 5.56 and a 18" 6.8 SPC for when you want something a little heavier. (The 6.8 SPC is a newer cartridge designed for improved lethality, particulaly out of the shorter barrels. Mid-range between the 5.56mm and the 7.62mm is really the sweet-spot for an assault rifle cartridge.) 20" 5.56mm barrel for when you feel like longer-range plinking.

I don't know the Saiga .308 personally, but my general experience has been if you buy cheap eastern block stuff, well, that's what you'll get. The open clearances that let a AK soak in the mud, drag through sand, and still fire also mean your accuracy is not good. Personally, I'd rather get nice groups and refrain from dragging my rifle through the mud.

For pistols, I am a big fan of Glocks. But you have to handle one- not everyone likes the feel of them. If you do like the feel, they are also very flexible in terms of drop-in barrels to change calibers, etc. The perfect "do it all" pistol would be a glock 22 or 23. They are .40 cal, but you can get a drop-in barrel for 9mm if you want lighter recoil. Great balance of quality, performance, and value.

Shotgun:

If it is going to be used just for home defense then get an 870 or mossberg set up for home defense. Mount a tach light on it and some good sites. If you ever plan to hunt then get you a nice hunting shotgun with a 26" barrel. Kill two birds with one stone. Look into the browning BPS.

Semi-Auto Rifle (We need to stop calling them assault rifles):
M4 style in .223 IMO. Cheap to shoot with low recoil. Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms etc. Academy has flat top bushmasters for $900 here in BHM. At least they did last Friday. I would not go with a .308 personally. You will get more rounds down range accurately with a .223 and it is all you need to neutralize a target. Plus the .308 is not going to be cheap and finding stock piles of ammo in the event of a zombie attack would come easier if you were looking for .223.

Large Caliber Rifle:

Again, what are you going to use it for? Plan to hunt at all or just as a sniper type rifle to take to the range? Nothing in the world wrong with a 700. Get it chambered in 30-06. Mount a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9X50 on top of it and get good scope mounts.

Shop around, Shop Around and Shop Around. You can call 10 places in an hour and get prices. Bass Pro is about the most over priced place I have found to buy guns. They are always 8-10% higher than I end up purchasing one for. If you feel the need to stare at a stuffed boar hanging around a giant fish tank while you are making your purchase than so be it. Try your local privately owned shops.

Everything I have suggested is on the lower side of quality. All of these would serve you well while not breaking the bank. If you have a wad of cash you are trying to get rid of and want high end stuff then let me know and I will change all of my suggestions.

Nuck

My opinion on the 700 is as follows. I have been hunting and using high calibers since I was about 10 years old.

My favorite cartridge is the .308 for the .30 caliber size. I have never been real fond of the -06, maybe because I was shooting one at the age of 15 and the thing kicked like a freaking mule.

These two cartridges are so close that I would suggest going with whichever you found the best deal on and have preference on. I myself do not like weapons that kick real hard, it affects my accuracy while on the range.

The .308 will typically give you about 6% less energy than a comparable 30-06 cartridge but will also have apx 20% less recoil. The reason the police and snipers of the past tend to use this cartridge is the need for a very accurate cartridge and the .308 has won more long distance shooting matches than any other .30 cal bullet on the market.

Depending on the bullet you choose to compare you will notice the .308 will have apx a (1 to 1.5 inch) greater bullet drop than a similar 30-06 at 300yrds with both bullets sighted for a 200yrd zero. With about 1/2 MOA at that distance.

You can find ammunition for both calibers just about anywhere although I have found .308 in the past to be a bit cheaper. If you are going to use this weapon for hunting both do an excellent job on game up to the size of an elk. If you choose to do any Moose hunting then you should consider the -06 because it can be loaded with a higher grain bullet.

Good luck in your choices.

</information overload> :P

and here i thought i had it all figured out, curse you all and your knowledge!

ok, well i guess primary use(s) would be more along the lines of home/zombie defense, and target shooting. i dont particularly plan to do any hunting any time soon, but i didnt want to limit myself by getting a specialized mode of firearm (thus the wide array of 'base' firearms proposed), in the off chance that i did decide (or have) to hunt. so i guess overall, this is more an exercise in the right to bear arms as well.

that said, and after the posts so far, sounds like i should be looking/starting with a .223 semi-auto rifle/SUR, and defensive/tactical shotgun, at least for now/at this point?

shotgun - so either the remington 870 or mossberg 590 12ga seem to be good no-brainers. there a particular barrel length to shoot for? chambering? and prices starting close to 300 up to 700?

.223 semi-auto/SUR - well the obvious choice seems to be an AR style/variant? anything in particular i should look out for? looks as though they can start close to 700 and head on up to 2000? i would consider myself mechanically inclined should the 'build my own' option be feasible, given prices and availability...i know there was a good rough outline for a DIY that i will have to dig for, but what was the 'meat-n-taters' part that had to be obtained from a dealer/FFL (the rest could be picked up from anywhere?)? granted, i am a bit of a noob, so it may be more logical to get one already put together :P (but on the other hand, i might be a good way to learn about the firearm ). another local shop is listed in the dealer locater of DPMS that i'm hoping to run out to by next week when i get a chance, to see what they have/say.

then if/when i get content with that base, i could move into the larger/more powerful .308 range...otherwise pretty much the shotgun and SUR should round out a 'semi-advanced' base/foundation?

the main reason i initially leaned towards the .308 was that i figured i could get dual usage out of the ammo, with the proposed "large caliber rifle" and the "SUR". ie, instead of having a batch of ammo A and ammo B, just one big happy batch of ammo C that both rifles use

oh, one thing i wanted to ask about...grips? what's the main advantages/disadvantages of "hunting" grip and "pistol" grip in terms of a rifle? i tried to google it and turned up mixed opinion/responses.

i did stop by a local gun shop yesterday on my way home briefly just to get an idea/feel for the place. it was kind of like a gunshop/pawnshop and handgun range. looked like they had mostly handguns, but also have a handful of shotguns and rifle, as well a several SURs, a few of which being AR style, and an AK with a folding stock. i didnt really delve into prices and whatnot with the guy as at that point i was still in the .308 mindset, which he didnt have. it looked like the AK was somewhere in the 400s...didnt peak at the ARs. given blakeman's comment on 'any SUR you can get your hands on', would a 400$ AK w/ folding stock be worth the time/money? i would still probably be interesting in the .223 AR to 'officially' round off the collection...would the time/money be better spent towards that?

once the dust settles if i go through with all of this, i was also considering the Curio license option, after that surplus posting with that 70$ Mosin Nagant combo :P since it's only a 30$ fee for a 5 year license...looks like some deals can be had, with alot of the hassle taken out (on old/surplus stuff of course).

and just a quick recap of what i already have...

handgun: glock 19 9mm
small caliber: marlin glenfield mod 60 .22LR

also have on old single shot shotgun that i think was my grandad's that i imagine is close to 100 years old, if not older...i really need to clean it up real good one day. and a marlin model '92 lever action, .22 i think...this doesnt seem to have a firing pin though, i would need to search for one of those to get that functional.

thanks again.