Thread: True or False....Global Warming

Originally Posted by Mr. White

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Of which are misleading. Acid rain is not uniquely human. Of which i have to assume was suggesting that we are the only things that cause acid rain and dex never suggested that man has no impacts on patterns of nature. You guys went to the extreme on the topic. When he was talking about contributing factors.

It doesn't change the fact that most acid rain is caused by man-made sources. Yes, there are times there can be natural acid rain, but the majority of it is man-made. So while the USGS site may have oversimplified a bit, it was after all an educational part of their site, they were pretty much correct. He was downplaying and writing off man's involvement here, try to make claims that the huge increase we see in acid rain is from pine needles and the like. That is just flat-out wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_ra..._acidification

Uh, wouldn't the amount caused by pine needles and volcanoes have stayed roughly constant over the years, so an increase would have to be from somewhere else?

Depends do you consider the million pine trees cut down and sent the land fill every year consistant or do you consider it man made. Good question huh. The tree is nature but we chopped it down.

Originally Posted by dex71

And just how,exactly do we know what the acid (as well as other chemicals) levels were before the industrial revolution? And are humans the ONLY thing that has changed over the last 100 years or so? I HIGHLY doubt it.

"70 Tg(S) per year in the form of SO2 comes from fossil fuel combustion and industry, 2.8 Tg(S) from wildfires and 7-8 Tg(S) per year from volcanoes." We are pumping sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides into the atmosphere at rates far, far above anything natural. And you still want to pretend humans have nothing to do with this?

Originally Posted by Mr. White

Forestry isn't really my thing, but aren't Pine forests younger forests that eventually make way for oak and redwood type trees? So, pine needles should be declining in numbers as well?

No we plant a tree for everyone cut down and i seriously doubt that they will ever let pine trees go by the way side. Pine is still highly used in construction. So i have to say we actually have more pine needles decomposing than before. Of course there is probably no way for me to back that up even if i wanted to.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by dex71

And just how,exactly do we know what the acid (as well as other chemicals) levels were before the industrial revolution? And are humans the ONLY thing that has changed over the last 100 years or so? I HIGHLY doubt it.

"70 Tg(S) per year in the form of SO2 comes from fossil fuel combustion and industry, 2.8 Tg(S) from wildfires and 7-8 Tg(S) per year from volcanoes." We are pumping sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides into the atmosphere at rates far, far above anything natural. And you still want to pretend humans have nothing to do with this?

You left out every other thing in nature that causes aids in causing acid rain. Have fun making that list.

Originally Posted by Mr. White

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by Mr. White

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Of which are misleading. Acid rain is not uniquely human. Of which i have to assume was suggesting that we are the only things that cause acid rain and dex never suggested that man has no impacts on patterns of nature. You guys went to the extreme on the topic. When he was talking about contributing factors.

It doesn't change the fact that most acid rain is caused by man-made sources. Yes, there are times there can be natural acid rain, but the majority of it is man-made. So while the USGS site may have oversimplified a bit, it was after all an educational part of their site, they were pretty much correct. He was downplaying and writing off man's involvement here, try to make claims that the huge increase we see in acid rain is from pine needles and the like. That is just flat-out wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_ra..._acidification

Uh, wouldn't the amount caused by pine needles and volcanoes have stayed roughly constant over the years, so an increase would have to be from somewhere else?

Depends do you consider the million pine trees cut down and sent the land fill every year consistant or do you consider it man made. Good question huh. The tree is nature but we chopped it down.

The tree may be nature but the Pine needle drop rate would be increased due to Man's cutting down of the trees (whole tree loses needles vs. just the lower limbs as the tree grows).

Not me i put root hormones on it this year and my wife has been feeding it miracle grow since i'm out of town now. So i figure see if it takes. Whats the worse thing that happens i'm out 15 bucks.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

You left out every other thing in nature that causes aids in causing acid rain. Have fun making that list.

It's just sulfur dioxide and nitrous oxides that cause acid rain. Pine needles aren't going to be high on that list, sorry. How much sulfur dioxide is emitted by decaying pine needles?

Originally Posted by dex71

Who said "nothing"? And define "natural". Humans are part of nature too...how much should we be putting out versus how much we are putting out is the real question....unless you are in favor of eradicating all Human input into the equation...and there is only one way to do that. See....extremes work on both sides.

And how much "more" is being put out now versus 100 years ago....we need BOTH numbers to show correlation...which still doesn't prove causation.

And knock it off with the arrogance it does more harm to your argument than it helps.....and don't "pretend" your not being arrogant about your position.

Define natural? Really? And yep, the fact that SO2 and various nitrous oxides, which are what cause acid rain, are released by industry and power plants has no correlation on the rise in acid rain at all, right?
"The gases responsible for acid deposition are normally a byproduct of electric power generation and the burning of coal. As such, it began entering the atmosphere in large amounts during the Industrial Revolution and was first discovered by a Scottish chemist, Robert Angus Smith, in 1852. In that year, he discovered the relationship between acid rain and atmospheric pollution in Manchester, England."
http://geography.about.com/od/global...a/acidrain.htm

I will give us credit, though, we have cut SO2 emissions by quite a bit over the past decade, and we are getting less acid rain, but that doesn't mean we can stop reducing emissions. It just goes to show we are causing it and can reduce it.