Thread: Understanding the Stimulus Bill

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If that is what the US Government is here to do, then I fully expect laws soon that state who can/can't reproduce, how many times, under what conditions, etc. If I am too stupid to take care of myself why should the government allow me to have a kid that I won't be able to take care of? If I am too poor to provide for myself why should the government allow me to have a child I won't be able to provide for. Slippery slope!!!

Just a note.

We are aware that "Slippery Slope" is the name an argumental fallacy, correct? that is, it does not prove anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by jmw_man

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Capitalism is all the fault of big business and greedy owners. I mean they snuck into all of these people's houses, stole their money, gave them products and services they had no need for and could not afford, and maxed out their credit cards. I can't understand how all of these businesses got so big and out of control when Joe American was so smart with his money? The average American is just as selfish and greedy as the guy with the golden parachute, it's just the average American uses their greed to buy houses, cars, and toys that are too big for them, while captain corporate uses it too build businesses too big.

+1

I agree wholeheartedly. When you throw government in the mix too, I worry for the future of these United States.

+2

I agree as well but I must emphasize that the greedy capitalist can do much more damage than the average joe because the greedy capitalist allows mr average joe to do so. The housing market is the perfect example; YES, people shouldn't have been taking out mortgages on something they can't afford but guess what, the greedy capitalists approved them. All of this would have been prevented if the greedy capitalists had denied these loans in the first place.

Like I said before, Dems believe people are inherintely stupid, that's why they like to increase regulations to keep greedy capitalists from taking advantage of the average DUMB american who doesn't know that his 2k monthly check won't pay for a 3k monthly mortgage.

The problem I have with that is that not all capitalists are greedy and Americans, though they can be caught up in things, are not inherently dumb people. Dangle the 'American Dream' in front of folks faces and some bite though.

"Dangle the 'American Dream'" that's the part where people are easily taken advantage of. The average guy may not be inherently dumb because it's just an expression for somebody who can't foresee what will happen should the worst happen, but see, that's the problem, people are all too easily taken advantage of by the rich. There's no changing these people. The only solution I see is more regulation on big companies or corporations. Disallow them from growing to extremities, etc.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020802367.html

Seems they are still confused on how to go about all this, at least to me. This makes me very concerned, since it was "hurry up and pass the bill" before.

Originally Posted by jmw_man

And you did a good thing, but since the bank down the street gave him the loan, then that bank is part of the problem.

Ding ding ding!

But also, the banks are allowed to give loans to people who can't afford them...that seems likebegging for trouble. But again, the bank can look good because it has all these loans worth of interest out there to put on paper...maximal output for minimal input.

Quick,

I somewhat agree, but it works both ways. I know many mortgage brokers who said you can qualify for X based on lending guidelines, but based on your budget I recommend .75X, and will only do the loan for that amount, so you can keep the house in a year or two. The people walk out, go down the street, get the loan for X, and it looks like a large percentage of them are failing now.

JMW,

Yeah, but I soon realized that these people are going to get the loan. If not from me then from my competition. If from my competition that does not help me to keep my job or pay my bills, so I can only do so much to ADVISE people. In the end they have to make the decision.

And it looks like both sides are getting their due. People that overspent are losing their homes, and banks that overlent, just made that up, are losing their ass. Natural cycle, but most Americans don't have the heart to look at the carcasses and watch the buzzards clean up the mess.

Soy,

Call it what you choose, but as I said in some other thread all these things bring us one step closer to socialism.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If that is what the US Government is here to do, then I fully expect laws soon that state who can/can't reproduce, how many times, under what conditions, etc. If I am too stupid to take care of myself why should the government allow me to have a kid that I won't be able to take care of? If I am too poor to provide for myself why should the government allow me to have a child I won't be able to provide for. Slippery slope!!!

But that's the thing, the government can't protect people from themselves, they need to start at a higher level, they need to protect people from other people.

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If that is what the US Government is here to do, then I fully expect laws soon that state who can/can't reproduce, how many times, under what conditions, etc. If I am too stupid to take care of myself why should the government allow me to have a kid that I won't be able to take care of? If I am too poor to provide for myself why should the government allow me to have a child I won't be able to provide for. Slippery slope!!!

Just a note.

We are aware that "Slippery Slope" is the name an argumental fallacy, correct? that is, it does not prove anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

A 'maybe' with billions of taxpayer dollars doesn't prove anything to me either.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Quick,

I somewhat agree, but it works both ways. I know many mortgage brokers who said you can qualify for X based on lending guidelines, but based on your budget I recommend .75X, and will only do the loan for that amount, so you can keep the house in a year or two. The people walk out, go down the street, get the loan for X, and it looks like a large percentage of them are failing now.

JMW,

Yeah, but I soon realized that these people are going to get the loan. If not from me then from my competition. If from my competition that does not help me to keep my job or pay my bills, so I can only do so much to ADVISE people. In the end they have to make the decision.

And it looks like both sides are getting their due. People that overspent are losing their homes, and banks that overlent, just made that up, are losing their ass. Natural cycle, but most Americans don't have the heart to look at the carcasses and watch the buzzards clean up the mess.

Soy,

Call it what you choose, but as I said in some other thread all these things bring us one step closer to socialism.

And I see where the problem can arise when two banks have to compete with each other to give out the loan . ..... That's capitalism.

You being the low man on the totem pole don't have much power seeing how you need to keep your job, the big man on the throne is in the exact same position as well, he's the bank CEO and he has to make money as well so he competes. That's where the government needs to step in and say, "NO, you can't give out that loan." There needs to be a qualifying system and that system needs to be used.

This is no different to me than all the people that sued the tobacco industry over getting cancer. It is a freaking death stick you stuck in your face, of your own free will, for however long you chose. Nobody made you smoke, so don't blame them when you can't breathe, get cancer, or die.

Nobody made these people get a credit card, buy a car, a home, a boat, or whatever else. What did? Their own personal greed. You can make all the laws you want, but you can't outlaw greed, selfishness, pride, ego, or any other emotions or character traits.

We all agree that people screwed up. The only place we differ is in who is responsible. Last time I checked I am only responsible for myself, partly my wife, and my kids. You seem to think the government, corporate America, your friends, your neighbor, and whomever else you want to pin it on is responsible for you, and I can't agree to that. if I buy a house that is too expensive I have nobody to blame but myself.