Thread: Understanding the Stimulus Bill

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

BUT, I still contend that the government's job is to protect us. And if that means protecting us from people taking out loans they can't afford and crashing our market when they can't pay them back, I am all for it.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Government is there to do what is quoted above, not protect us from our own responsibility or the lack of such from others. Right before we have soup lines is when the government should step in, not when it is a whole lot of 'maybes'.

When someones lack of responsibility directly affects my tranquility, safety and welfare it does fall within those lines. And a direct control of that, available to the government is telling the firms not to loan money to those who are least likely to pay them back. Small intervention serving to protect us.

But like Civil said, if the government bails banks out, then the banks can rely on not being responsible, just as the loan applicant does not have to be responsible. That leaves the government as responsible...I want to investigate.

Originally Posted by BruceBloodMaster

If you mean to say that Socialism is a Better choice....?? Then move to Cuba !

Socialism--------------------------------------------------------------------------Capitalism
^
we are here
^
we need to be here

Anybody who disagrees is foolish.

You say that the Govt told the banks to make risky loans, I'd like to learn more about this so where can I read up on this?

Every FHA and VA is backed by the Federal government. The government sets the guidelines, and says we will buy insure this loan as long as it meets a, b, and c. So before the bank gives you a loan they know the govt will insure it. Thus they knew before what the regulations were that the govt had set, so the govt screwed us once, now you want to trust them to get it right?

Why does the state government need money? I thought that is why we pay taxes... oh wait, it is because government spends irresponsibly and is in debt. Seems like a vicious cycle to me. Where are all the cuts in government to save money? All I see is spending to fix a hole, not rebuild a dam.

Or maybe it could have to do, like it is here in arizona, the Republicans can't stand the word tax increase so instead they cut one of the worst funded school systems to begin with over 100 million dollars, and basically destroy the universities. OH and add to that they want to take another 300 million from the universities who already don't have enough money to deal with the first cut of 140 million.

But dear god raising a sales tax or one of the lowest property taxes is just impossible .

As for capitalism not being a cause, your right. Because we don't have a capitalism system, in face IIRC no country has ever been a capitalist country. If we had full on capitalism we wouldn't be the superpower we are today because someone would have either taken us over, or we'd be poorer then most 3rd world countries.

Lastly why does it seem the people on the right side of the bar never want to blame the lenders and just blame the people. If i'm running a business and someone wants a loan, i'm not going to trust them to understand what they can afford. People tend to be stupid and uninformed on financial issues (in my experience anyways).

Plus you say businesses don't make them max out their credit cards, which is true. However a little trick credit card companies LOVE to do is give you a bigger line of credit when you max out or come close to maxing out. why? because then you can spend even more and they bank on you paying it off. If your losing millions because you gave out credit cards and people aren't paying them off, isn't that both the persons fault for being a dumbass and the credit card companies fault for being a dumbass?

The peoples' flaw is that they took out loans that they could not afford. If you did it then you are the one responisble for it.

The banks' flaw is that they used the system t its fullest that was set up for them by the same government that you are all counting on to bail us out today by throwing good money after bad.

Yes, I put most of the blame on the people. If I shoot someone do they blame me, or the gun? If I discover a cure for cancer do they praise me, or my beakers? Money and credit is just a tool. Some people understand it, and use it wisely, others do not understand it, but still try to play the game.

I have read this thread in it's entirety because it is good discussion.

My thoughts:

As a human or animal, the principle of Darwinism is always in play. This trickles down to not only survival in the breathing sense but also in a political and economic one. The weak need to be done away with. Don't think I am for death in the literal sense but banks, businesses, homes, and people need to fail.

Not everyone deserves a home or can manage one. I am not big on socialism, although I work for a socialist entity, the fire department. Ouch!

If we cannot police ourselves enough to do the right thing we are going to either need to make more services, socialized or we must accept business and people must fail.

We can pay now or later but we eventually must pay. The question is if we have to pay with our nation, values, economy, etc.

Time will tell.

I think there are too many obese people in America, so since people are not smart enough to eat right we need to have the government step in and regulate on soda, cookies, and ice cream while they are at it.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I think there are too many obese people in America, so since people are not smart enough to eat right we need to have the government step in and regulate on soda, cookies, and ice cream while they are at it.

They way we are depending on the government it may be next.

Soon we will all live like the people in "Demolition Man". Eishhh. Joy Joy DAY!

Originally Posted by jmw_man

You say that the Govt told the banks to make risky loans, I'd like to learn more about this so where can I read up on this?

"Community Reinvestment Act" passed in 1977 by Jimmy Carter and the Democrats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

Strengthened in 1995 by... Bill Clinton and the Democrats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communi...y_changes_1995

It basically forced lenders to start issuing sub-prime loans.