Inconvenient Debt?

**asianator365** · 03-01-09, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Trigger, speed limit, bed times, and homework are probably not the best examples. I would dare say that laws that are "right" for the culture in San Jose, CA, may not be "right" for NY, NY, or Des Moines, IA. Would you agree with that? What is the government saw that tractors were killing people/the environment, so they decide to outlaw them. The people in NYC and San Jose could probably care less in the short term since they do no farming, but the rural farmers will be immediately put out of business, and in the long term the people in NYC and San Jose that were not affected now have no food. Yes, this is a very elementary example, but my point is with the different economic, social, cultural, and other differences we have throughout the country the larger the area/population you try to cover the less effective/personal you are.

Obviously your use of examples is less than stellar. First homework and now tractors. Find a legitimate example and perhaps I'll agree with you.

On a side note, do you believe dinosaurs roamed the Earth 5000 years ago?

Trigger, what is your major malfunction? I haven't seen CivilWars attacking you personally, he's only trying to express his views. And from your comments here, it is very clear to me that you are trying to launch a personal attack and question his intelligence.

**CivilWars** · 03-01-09, 11:40 AM

Or, even better, how does a multi-billion dollar bailout of American auto makers help someone like Soy who uses either his feet, his bicycle, or public transportation to get almost everywhere he goes? I am sure Soy knows many people in his local area that are much the same. So you are going to take all of their tax dollars, roll them into a pool, and give whatever percentage of them to a cause that not only will it not benefit them, but also is probably somewhat opposed to their core values and beliefs. So let's keep dancing shall we?

**MoufRoof** · 03-01-09, 11:57 AM

$24 million for United States Department of Agriculture buildings and rent

$176 million for renovating Agricultural Research Service buildings
$290 million for flood prevention
* $50 million for watershed rehabilitation
* $1.4 billion for wastewater disposal programs
* $295 million for administrative expenses associated with food stamp programs
* $1 billion for the 2010 Census
* $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges and libraries
* $650 million for the digital TV converter box coupon program
* $2 billion for Byrne Justice Assistance Grant program
* $10 million to combat Mexican gunrunners
* $125 million for rural communities to combat drug crimes
* $1 billion for the Community Oriented Policing Services program
* $1 billion for NASA
* $300 million to purchase scientific instruments for colleges and museums
* $400 million for equipment and facilities at the National Science Foundation
* $3.7 billion to conduct "green" renovations on military bases
* $375 million for Mississippi River projects
* $10 million for urban canals
* $5 billion for weatherizing buildings
* $2 billion to develop advanced batteries for hybrid cars
* $3.4 billion for fossil energy research
* $5.1 billion for environmental cleanup around military bases
* $5.5 billion for "green" federal buildings
* $300 million for "green" cars for federal employees
* $20 million for IT upgrades at the Small Business Administration
* $200 million to design and furnish Department of Homeland Security headquarters
* $98 million earmarked for a polar icebreaker
* $210 million for State and local fire stations
* $125 million to restore trails and abandoned mines
* $146 million for trail maintenance at National Park Service sites
* $140 million for volcano monitoring systems
* $600 million for the Environmental Protection Agency Superfund environmental cleanup program
* $200 million to clean up leaking underground storage tanks
* $500 million for forest health and wildfire prevention
* $25 million for the Smithsonian Institution
* $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
* $1.2 billion for "youth activities" (for "youth" up to 24 years old)
* $500 million earmarked for National Institute of Health facilities
* $1 billion for Head Start Program
* $32 million for home-delivered nutrition services
* $160 million for volunteer programs at the Corporation for National and Community Service
* $500 million earmarked for the SSA National Computer Center in Maryland
* $220 million for the International Boundary and Water Commission, U.S. and Mexico
* $8 billion for high-speed railways (This amount is 4 times higher than the one voted on Tuesday in the Senate bill)
* $1.3 billion for Amtrak

How is any of this pork going to help the average hard working, tax paying American? Coupons for tv boxes? Volcano monitoring systems. Obama went on tv and promised every American this bill would not have a single bit of pork in it. He's a liar and should be impeached for it. I'm pissed off and you should be too. He is mortgaging our children's future so that Nancy Pelosi's district (San Francisco) get millions of dollars for wetlands restoration. All the people that helped get him elected are getting their big fat $800 billion thank you.

**SapiensErus** · 03-01-09, 12:05 PM

WHat is wrong with volcano monitoring systems? If we learned anything from H. Katrina, predicting natural disasters is pretty useful. And besides, installing those systems will create jobs and the stations will need attendees. Also it is 140 million out hundreds of BILLIONS. I voted for Obama, and I do not see much pork there. All of those projects are worthwhile and will create jobs for at least as long as it takes to construct and many for the long haul.

**SapiensErus** · 03-01-09, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Or, even better, how does a multi-billion dollar bailout of American auto makers help someone like Soy who uses either his feet, his bicycle, or public transportation to get almost everywhere he goes? I am sure Soy knows many people in his local area that are much the same. So you are going to take all of their tax dollars, roll them into a pool, and give whatever percentage of them to a cause that not only will it not benefit them, but also is probably somewhat opposed to their core values and beliefs. So let's keep dancing shall we?

This particular bailout is not going to any of those big failed companies... look at that list, it is a lot of stuff I can support. In fact, almost all of the money my state is getting is going to mass transit and road improvement, which I certainly use.

Ultimately, however the problem get's fixed, I see it coming out of American's pockets. For no other reason than we have been living beyond our means for some time. And it is time to pay the piper.

**CivilWars** · 03-01-09, 12:10 PM

He asked for examples of decisions made by the federal government that would be good for some, and bad for others. There are two examples. So explain to me how the auto bailout is good for you, or admit that it is indeed bad for you, and I do admit that it is good for some.

**SapiensErus** · 03-01-09, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

He asked for examples of decisions made by the federal government that would be good for some, and bad for others. There are two examples. So explain to me how the auto bailout is good for you, or admit that it is indeed bad for you, and I do admit that it is good for some.

Well, if it did help to bolster that business to prevent it from leaking yet more dollars I would benefit by more overall economic stability.

Really though I am torn on the first bailout. I think on one hand that the failures need to pay for their mistakes and go down in flames. But as a big softee I hate to see that happen and I want those who say that helping bolster them will "fix" it. I see anything short of the government taking those businesses and running them fixing them however as unlikely to be effective. they have been repeatedly rewarded for their bad habits and CEO's tend to think very short term.

**rock_lobster** · 03-01-09, 12:53 PM

So with all these building projects, how does that help me(us), the college graduate looking for corporate work?

I don't build roads, bridges, houses,....I dont build anything.

I still say, screw the bailouts and give companies and citizens tax breaks....it eliminates a majority of government involvement, and lets us keep our money directly...not to mention, it only affects those who pay taxes...not the leeches sucking us dry.

The government is making itself seem more important than it is. They think they must be involved in everything or else we will fail. Right now, it's bailouts, next they will be taking compelte control of everything, with the excuse that the country will crash if they do not intervene. It's their fucking fault we are here to begin with, and now we want them to solve our problems? Screw that. Clinton, Bush, Obama....all of em....we do not need more government intervention. They are like the overbearing parent trying to control the lives of their 30 year old married son. Leave us alone!

LESS GOVERNMENT = LESS PROBLEMS!!!

**rock_lobster** · 03-01-09, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Also it is 140 million out hundreds of BILLIONS.

And that's the mentality that makes it more difficult to get out of the mess we are in....sure 140 mil is minute compared to billions of dollars. But when you have hundreds of minute amounts like that, it becomes a big deal.

**SapiensErus** · 03-01-09, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

So with all these building projects, how does that help me(us), the college graduate looking for corporate work?

I don't build roads, bridges, houses,....I dont build anything.

I still say, screw the bailouts and give companies and citizens tax breaks....it eliminates a majority of government involvement, and lets us keep our money directly...not to mention, it only affects those who pay taxes...not the leeches sucking us dry.

The government is making itself seem more important than it is. They think they must be involved in everything or else we will fail. Right now, it's bailouts, next they will be taking compelte control of everything, with the excuse that the country will crash if they do not intervene. It's their fucking fault we are here to begin with, and now we want them to solve our problems? Screw that. Clinton, Bush, Obama....all of em....we do not need more government intervention. They are like the overbearing parent trying to control the lives of their 30 year old married son. Leave us alone!

LESS GOVERNMENT = LESS PROBLEMS!!!

Whats your degree in?

Those projects need all kinds of people and may attract other business too. Where the construction goes food vending carts tend to follow! Also, those projects are not only built by grunt construction workers but a whole host of support staff including office lackeys, designers, engineers, graphic designers, etc. And the theory is those people will have some employment at least for a period, leaving other jobs for the likes of others. Also, not all the things slated are construction, many are research and development which requires scientists and offic workers.

The other day I went to a McCormick and Schmick's (a big and pretty fancy restaurant chain). I was applying for a bartending job they advertised. they had also advertised cook and server positions. I shit you not there were FORTY people in there filling out applications. I have never seen that... times are tough, people need jobs.