Thread: Is waterboarding torture?

Originally Posted by asianator365

Pull your heads out of your asses:

WE ARE IN A WAR DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you going?

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by asianator365

Pull your heads out of your asses:

WE ARE IN A WAR DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you going?

He is in school Trigger, why are going signing up to be a Soldier? You seem to ask this question a lot when someone replies....

Are you going to Man up too ?

Simple commander, because we are not under any grave danger that our current military can't handle. But to hear you tell it, everyone wants to kill us and were all gonna diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Btw, when are you forming the United State of Oklahoma?

We are not in a conventional war though, we are at war with an ideology, not one where the enemy is easily identified nor his country easily marked on the map.

I wonder sometimes if our reaction to the events of 9/11 only spurred on more violence. Think of this if you will.

I want my ideology and faith to be spread into the mainstream society. My ideology relies on the fact that there has to be one faith in the world, and that in order to accomplish this all heretics/non believers have to be either converted or executed. To accomplish this goal I have to show the moderate followers that the enemy is at their doorstep.

So I attack the 'enemies' country to bring them to me, thus placing the 'enemy' on the doorstep of everyone, moderate or one of my ideology and thus gain more followers.


If the enemy was not at their doorstep they would go on with their normal lives and local politics and routines, but having a visible enemy emboldens them to my cause.

----------------

If this is true did we play right into Bin Laden's hand by going over there? Had we not gone over there en-mass would old Bin Laden had shown his face by now?

By the media covering this it reaches the middle east and spurs on those that might not become terrorists otherwise?


This is one of those reasons that I feel that the US should focus on domestic issues and domestic security and less on world politics.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

We are not in a conventional war though, we are at war with an ideology, not one where the enemy is easily identified nor his country easily marked on the map.

I wonder sometimes if our reaction to the events of 9/11 only spurred on more violence. Think of this if you will.

I want my ideology and faith to be spread into the mainstream society. My ideology relies on the fact that there has to be one faith in the world, and that in order to accomplish this all heretics/non believers have to be either converted or executed. To accomplish this goal I have to show the moderate followers that the enemy is at their doorstep.

So I attack the 'enemies' country to bring them to me, thus placing the 'enemy' on the doorstep of everyone, moderate or one of my ideology and thus gain more followers.


If the enemy was not at their doorstep they would go on with their normal lives and local politics and routines, but having a visible enemy emboldens them to my cause.

----------------

If this is true did we play right into Bin Laden's hand by going over there? Had we not gone over there en-mass would old Bin Laden had shown his face by now?

By the media covering this it reaches the middle east and spurs on those that might not become terrorists otherwise?


This is one of those reasons that I feel that the US should focus on domestic issues and domestic security and less on world politics.

Well said.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by asianator365

Pull your heads out of your asses:

WE ARE IN A WAR DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you going?

He is in school Trigger, why are going signing up to be a Soldier? You seem to ask this question a lot when someone replies....

Are you going to Man up too ?

Simple commander, because we are not under any grave danger that our current military can't handle. But to hear you tell it, everyone wants to kill us and were all gonna diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I bet you said the same thing on the day of 9/11...... Unless you are one of those conspiracy wackos that thinks our government made all of it up.

Threats are real and some people just don't have the guts to accept it and choose to ignore them.

Making the 9/11-Saddam connection I see.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

We are not in a conventional war though, we are at war with an ideology, not one where the enemy is easily identified nor his country easily marked on the map.

I wonder sometimes if our reaction to the events of 9/11 only spurred on more violence. Think of this if you will.

I want my ideology and faith to be spread into the mainstream society. My ideology relies on the fact that there has to be one faith in the world, and that in order to accomplish this all heretics/non believers have to be either converted or executed. To accomplish this goal I have to show the moderate followers that the enemy is at their doorstep.

So I attack the 'enemies' country to bring them to me, thus placing the 'enemy' on the doorstep of everyone, moderate or one of my ideology and thus gain more followers.


If the enemy was not at their doorstep they would go on with their normal lives and local politics and routines, but having a visible enemy emboldens them to my cause.

----------------

If this is true did we play right into Bin Laden's hand by going over there? Had we not gone over there en-mass would old Bin Laden had shown his face by now?

By the media covering this it reaches the middle east and spurs on those that might not become terrorists otherwise?


This is one of those reasons that I feel that the US should focus on domestic issues and domestic security and less on world politics.

I don't think most moderates think we are their enemy. I think they are forced into submission by the Taliban, Extreme Village Tribal Leaders, or Al Queda, pick one. Most moderates I believe view the US/UN presence as trying to fight only the Extremists (Al Queda) but are very wary in having to choose our side in fear for their lives. If you watch a lot of these incampment videos you will see our military leaders meeting with village leaders trying to help them, giving them materials and meeting with them to discuss strategy.

The problem is the village leaders have to decide to either risk their lives and help the US or side with the enemy. They don't necessarily hate us, in fact the probably want to help us.

I see alot of this rhetoric which is pointing out problems but never gives any solutions. What's the alternative? We do nothing after 9/11?

Waterboarding is probably torture, one that doesn't permanently harm (physcially) or kill you but inflicts temporary anguish. But here's the point...

We are the world leader. This is true. But we didn't get here by fooling ourselves we live in a world full of rivers made of chocolate and clouds of marshmellows. As a leader you have to decide what is best for your country's safety at times. So what do we do with these enemy combatants?

1. Keep them in prison forever? Try to question them without any from of toture?
2. Put them through military trials and possible death penalty?
3. Interrogate them through means of lighter sides of torture (compared to chopping someone's head off) and try to extract information from them.
4. Let them go.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=46949

This says alot. This is an example of how extracting information through waterboarding helped prevent an attack on US Land. Specifically KSM (The mastermind behind 9/11) was not responsive until these techinques which lead to the capture and shutdown of terrorist cells who were planning to attack Los Angeles.

For me I feel we should not just blatently toture just anyone - which for the most part the US strives not to do (even though there are cases that prove otherwise). However, everyone needs to really understand the situation we are in....

We are not in traditional war people....

We are not fighting Germany and have taken German prisoners who when we release them after we win the war will just go back to their normal lives. We are up against people who really believe that we should all die. They want to kill us for our ideals, not because they want to have our terrority or oil. They want to kill us because of what we stand for. So in my mind the ballgame is different which being the world leader we are we should recognize.

We don't cut the heads off people, we don't electricute them. We don't burn them, we don't shoot them. These people want to kill us. Why as the world leader should we be nice to them?

What does this say? "Hey, you are in a group that wants to kill us. I've interviewed and you don't seem like a bad guy really, why don't you go ahead and go back to Pakistan."

So what is all of your solutions to not waterboarding and/or sleep deprevation? If there are other alternatives please let the CIA, NSA, FBI and our military leaders know. I'm sure they'd like to hear it.

Just because we are the "world leader" doesn't mean we have to appease everyone. It also doesn't mean we toture for no reason, but it doesn't mean we just lay down and take punches. If that's the way you feel, move to France and become "Le Tired"...