Thread: Is waterboarding torture?

Originally Posted by Hitch

What church is it that does snake handling? If your guilty of sin, you get bit, plain and simple! Just ask the ones that have survived...of course they were guilty of some sort of sin.

Let's just let them handle some of our homegrown legless lizards. Here's a list to get you started:

4 types of rattlesnake to choose from
cottonmouth
copperhead
coral snake

Keep in mind though, our snakes are not the most poisonous.

Hitch

Sea snake would of worked better than any of those. Although I guess you could at least give them a fighting chance.

Originally Posted by Hitch

What church is it that does snake handling? If your guilty of sin, you get bit, plain and simple! Just ask the ones that have survived...of course they were guilty of some sort of sin.

Let's just let them handle some of our homegrown legless lizards. Here's a list to get you started:

4 types of rattlesnake to choose from
cottonmouth
copperhead
coral snake

Keep in mind though, our snakes are not the most poisonous.

Hitch

I think Mike Huckabee is one of those snake handler types......

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

1an·guish
Pronunciation: \?a?-gwish\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English angwisshe, from Anglo-French anguisse, angoisse, from Latin angustiae, plural, straits, distress, from angustus narrow; akin to Old English enge narrow — more at anger
Date: 13th century
: extreme pain, distress, or anxiety

#4 in the definition of torture

Water boarding does meet the definition of torture. I'm still good with it being using as military tactics. No one shows us a safe haven when we are captured. Why should we be the only ones doing it? What is there to fear in combat if your captured and they put you up in a detainment center that caters to you. There should always be fear about being captured. War is not a pleasant thing nether should being a prisoner of war. If information can be extracted without permanant physical damage I say go for it.

It's not like our opinion on it matters. This has been going on long before this country was founded and will continue. Why because it works.

Are you fucking NUTS? You are okay with the US using torture as a "military tactic"? Mail me some of what you are smoking......

Seriously, this is a very pogue-ish thing to say. I mean, seriously?

*shakes head in bewilderment*

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

1an·guish
Pronunciation: \?a?-gwish\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English angwisshe, from Anglo-French anguisse, angoisse, from Latin angustiae, plural, straits, distress, from angustus narrow; akin to Old English enge narrow — more at anger
Date: 13th century
: extreme pain, distress, or anxiety

#4 in the definition of torture

Water boarding does meet the definition of torture. I'm still good with it being using as military tactics. No one shows us a safe haven when we are captured. Why should we be the only ones doing it? What is there to fear in combat if your captured and they put you up in a detainment center that caters to you. There should always be fear about being captured. War is not a pleasant thing nether should being a prisoner of war. If information can be extracted without permanant physical damage I say go for it.

It's not like our opinion on it matters. This has been going on long before this country was founded and will continue. Why because it works.

Are you fucking NUTS? You are okay with the US using torture as a "military tactic"? Mail me some of what you are smoking......

Seriously, this is a very pogue-ish thing to say. I mean, seriously?

*shakes head in bewilderment*

You may to liberal for your own good. How did you make it in the Corps being this liberal? You act like this shit is new. Some of us just accept the fact that it does happen. We could argue about whether or not the intel gathered is good or bad but it's a useless argument. Nether of us could prove either side. Probably because nether of us have been POW's and had to go through it. I can say that I've known one personally until a year ago when he died from agent orange. So no I'm not nuts just a realist.

You can keep up with the pogue stuff bullet sponge. Don't be mad because I was to intelligent for the grunts.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

You may to liberal for your own good. How did you make it in the Corps being this liberal? You act like this shit is new. Some of us just accept the fact that it does happen. We could argue about whether or not the intel gathered is good or bad but it's a useless argument. Nether of us could prove either side. Probably because nether of us have been POW's and had to go through it. I can say that I've known one personally until a year ago when he died from agent orange. So no I'm not nuts just a realist.

You can keep up with the pogue stuff bullet sponge. Don't be mad because I was to intelligent for the grunts.

First things first, grunts=harder than the air wing. How did I make it in the Corps? What makes you think I wouldn't have "made it in the Corps"? Because my views make sense? How about the fact that I stood my ground at all times (remember what integrity is?) and when I hit, I hit hard. Yeah it takes a whole lot of intelligence to strapping something to the bottom of a plane, yeah, a shit load more intelligence than writing a detailed patrol order(something like a TEWT, you know what one of those are?). And it takes a hell of a lot more discipline and intelligence to strap one of those things to planes than to actually have to execute said TEWT. Yeah all of those (Mortar, Artie, Naval Guns, CAS/CIF) call for fire missions, drawing range cards, keeping observation logs are definitely below the intelligence, heart and commitment levels that it takes to inventory everything in your ship's magazine or air wing base.

Second of all, It has absolutely nothing about being liberal to say that torture is against the law. You admitted that "waterboarding does meet the definition of torture", you typed it. Then you proceed to act as if you know anything about military tactics, and say that you are all right with torture as a military tactic? You act like it will deter someone from not liking us. I don't see these guys having much of a shortage of recruiting due to our use of torture, on the contrary Gen. Petraeus is emphatically against the use of torture, for the exact same reasons I have espoused, as well as any General from here to Timbuktu.

An excerpt of what he said

This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we — not our enemies — occupy the moral high ground. This strategy has shown results in recent months. AL Qaeda’s indiscriminate attacks, for example, have finally started to turn a substantial portion of the Iraqi population against it…

I… know firsthand the bonds between members of the ‘brotherhood of the close fight.’ Seeing a fellow trooper killed by a barbaric enemy can spark frustration, anger, and a desire for immediate revenge. As hard as it may be, however, we must not let those emotions lead us… to commit hasty, illegal actions…

Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone "talk;" however, what the individual says may be of questionable value…

In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also human beings.

And a good site for vets to visit.
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2813

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

You may to liberal for your own good. How did you make it in the Corps being this liberal? You act like this shit is new. Some of us just accept the fact that it does happen. We could argue about whether or not the intel gathered is good or bad but it's a useless argument. Nether of us could prove either side. Probably because nether of us have been POW's and had to go through it. I can say that I've known one personally until a year ago when he died from agent orange. So no I'm not nuts just a realist.

You can keep up with the pogue stuff bullet sponge. Don't be mad because I was to intelligent for the grunts.

First things first, grunts=harder than the air wing. How did I make it in the Corps? What makes you think I wouldn't have "made it in the Corps"? Because my views make sense? How about the fact that I stood my ground at all times (remember what integrity is?) and when I hit, I hit hard. Yeah it takes a whole lot of intelligence to strapping something to the bottom of a plane, yeah, a shit load more intelligence than writing a detailed patrol order(something like a TEWT, you know what one of those are?). And it takes a hell of a lot more discipline and intelligence to strap one of those things to planes than to actually have to execute said TEWT. Yeah all of those (Mortar, Artie, Naval Guns, CAS/CIF) call for fire missions, drawing range cards, keeping observation logs are definitely below the intelligence, heart and commitment levels that it takes to inventory everything in your ship's magazine or air wing base.

Second of all, It has absolutely nothing about being liberal to say that torture is against the law. You admitted that "waterboarding does meet the definition of torture", you typed it. Then you proceed to act as if you know anything about military tactics, and say that you are all right with torture as a military tactic? You act like it will deter someone from not liking us. I don't see these guys having much of a shortage of recruiting due to our use of torture, on the contrary Gen. Petraeus is emphatically against the use of torture, for the exact same reasons I have espoused, as well as any General from here to Timbuktu.

An excerpt of what he said

This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we — not our enemies — occupy the moral high ground. This strategy has shown results in recent months. AL Qaeda’s indiscriminate attacks, for example, have finally started to turn a substantial portion of the Iraqi population against it…

I… know firsthand the bonds between members of the ‘brotherhood of the close fight.’ Seeing a fellow trooper killed by a barbaric enemy can spark frustration, anger, and a desire for immediate revenge. As hard as it may be, however, we must not let those emotions lead us… to commit hasty, illegal actions…

Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone "talk;" however, what the individual says may be of questionable value…

In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also human beings.

And a good site for vets to visit.
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2813

First off I was joking with you but seeing as you wanted to go there ok.

Your thinking I was O level. Incorrect I was I level. I didn't mount the shit to the plane. I built, repaired, and deliveried it to the O's. LOL grunts=harder than airwing. Common misconception by ground pounders. There is a reason they have the lowest score to get into that MOS. Where mine being I level ordnance was the highest score. Yes you guys had to pt everyday then go back and clean up the barracks or some other menial task. We worked all day at a shop.

Then if there were night ops like there was a lot of the time we were doing build up, clearing jams, and on watch till 3 in the morning and back at the shop same time as normal. LOL we don't even want to get into reports I'm guessing we probably had some where around the same amount by the way your talking way to fuckin many.

As for saying I'm alright with torture as a tactic you have to read everything I put not just select sections. It's been going on longer than this country has been around. I also said as long as it does not cause permanent physical damage. It is reality we are not going to change anything. I even said it's fucked up but I'm a realist it here for a long time to come so get use to it.

Of which by the way what fellow troops are you reffering to what war did you serve during? As far as I can tell by your stats you didn't serve during war time. I seem to recall you saying you served like 6 years. No wars during the time frame alotted. Just remember you wanted to make the attack don't get mad because I went on the offensive.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Of which by the way what fellow troops are you reffering to what war did you serve during? As far as I can tell by your stats you didn't serve during war time. I seem to recall you saying you served like 6 years. No wars during the time frame alotted. Just remember you wanted to make the attack don't get mad because I went on the offensive.

Huh? you lost me..........

I was in from 94-98. No wars, Operation Iron Magic in Kuwait as well as recovery of UN weapons inspectors in 97/98 from Iraq.

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Of which by the way what fellow troops are you reffering to what war did you serve during? As far as I can tell by your stats you didn't serve during war time. I seem to recall you saying you served like 6 years. No wars during the time frame alotted. Just remember you wanted to make the attack don't get mad because I went on the offensive.

Huh? you lost me..........

I was in from 94-98. No wars, Operation Iron Magic in Kuwait as well as recovery of UN weapons inspectors in 97/98 from Iraq.

It was a question to a mis read on my part.