Thread: Bad move North Korea

You treat them exactly the same as every other pisspot, shithole dictator with a megalomaniac complex. You ignore the shit out of them until they realize that all this posturing and bullshit won't get them anywhere.

Like we did with Gaddafi, or Milošević, or South Africa in the '60s, or Castro, or Chávez.

You impose sanctions and wait. Because sanctions don't work overnight. They can take years, if not decades to work. And you know what? That's how international relations on a macro level operates. Sometimes you just have to wait that long. Like the Cold War, you just have to wait and wait and eventually the other guy will collapse.

Except that our MTV, action movie soaked minds can't fathom why we should have to wait that long. Slam, bam, lets bomb them now ma'am! We don't think of the consequences of what our actions might cause. Why bother thinking out what might happen 5 or 10 years down the road. No, we see the "problem" and the first thing we want to do is shove a cruise missile up it's ass. It dosen't work that way.

Now, I think that the sanctions against North Korea are fairly weak and pathetic, especially when compared to others that have been imposed in the 20th century.

And sometimes? You have to call the madman's bluff.

You have to have the balls to say to Kim Jong Il, "Go ahead, detonate a bomb on DMZ."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4REtWGGsflw

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Originally Posted by Arreo

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

And, if North Korea detonates a Nuclear Weapon (the size of the one that they tested last month), on the South Korean border, what will you all you that are defending North Korea have to say then?

Who's defending North Korea's actions? What most of the people here are saying is that they don't think that bombing the shit out of the country is the correct response...

So when diplomacy fails, santions failed, talks fall apart again, and North Korea ramps up their nuclear weapons program to full steam ahead, test another Nuke to show you they mean it, and tell you they are reprocessing the rest of their plutonium to make more Nukes, which they are doing. Then threaten you with a Nuclear Attack.

So how do you propose we stop them, when everything else failed?

Thats easy you send yet another letter and a box of candy asking again for them to stop because it has worked just spiffy up to this point.

Originally Posted by Arreo

You treat them exactly the same as every other pisspot, shithole dictator with a megalomaniac complex. You ignore the shit out of them until they realize that all this posturing and bullshit won't get them anywhere.

Like we did with Gaddafi, or Miloševi?, or South Africa in the '60s, or Castro, or Chávez.

You impose sanctions and wait. Because sanctions don't work overnight. They can take years, if not decades to work. And you know what? That's how international relations on a macro level operates. Sometimes you just have to wait that long. Like the Cold War, you just have to wait and wait and eventually the other guy will collapse.

Except that our MTV, action movie soaked minds can't fathom why we should have to wait that long. Slam, bam, lets bomb them now ma'am! We don't think of the consequences of what our actions might cause. Why bother thinking out what might happen 5 or 10 years down the road. No, we see the "problem" and the first thing we want to do is shove a cruise missile up it's ass. It dosen't work that way.

Now, I think that the sanctions against North Korea are fairly weak and pathetic, especially when compared to others that have been imposed in the 20th century.

Maybe your not up to date. NK has been sanctioned for right around 50 years. They are the poorist nation on the planet. Yet they have not chaged one bit on how they wish to deal with the rest of the world.

Is your proposal the same as Commander's?

Originally Posted by Toker

Is your proposal the same as Commander's?

It depends. He may back down if we send the pacafic fleet to off shore NK. I do have to say enough is enough we have been playing cat and mouse with this asshole for decades. To many people have been loaded onto planes to go there and put an end to this before he had nuclear power. I say it's time to do what George senior did. Give the altimatum at 12:00pm if you do not comply it's going to raining 500 and 1000 pounders at 12:01pm.

He's had sanctions, decades of talks till everyone is blue in the face. Everything that could be done has been as far as I can tell. It's time to put it on the table. If you want to threaten war then you should be prepared to have one.

What sort of 'sanctions' are you talking about?

Slap-on-the-wrist "You are a Communist state and we don't like you" ones that have been in place since 1945? Those only restricted how US banks could trade with the "reds".

"We don't like your human rights record" sternly worded annual letters that have been in place since 1961? Literally... a strongly worded letter each year...

Arms Embargos and weapons proliferation sanctions that have been in place since 1979? Wherein we refused to sell them weapons or other direct military technology?

Stricter military embargos put in place in 2000? Where we expanded the definition of 'military technology' to include anything that could be indirectly used for military purposes?

Human rights violations, where we classified them as a "Tier 3" offending state in 2003 and told them they were very bad people for participating in human trafficking?

Economic sanctions imposed in 2005 when we finally stopped NK banks trading in the US and seized all foreign currency that NK had in the US?

Oh, and lets not forget, the US is the only country in the world that is imposing these sanctions against NK. Most other countries are going right ahead and trading with Kim Jong Il.

Go ahead and read this: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31696.pdf

Originally Posted by dex71

Originally Posted by CanadianPersian

sanctions DON'T work. by my knowledge, they never have either. not in the aforementioned cuba, venezuela or south africa anyway. if anything, it emboldens the sanctioned countries and gives the governments more leverage.

Here we agree CP. Sanctions usually starve the people...not the government. The Army eats,while the people starve. Sanctions only work with governments that care about their people more than their power. In a dictatorship...that has never happened.

Bullshit. Sanctions never, ever have to be about food. The idea that economic sanctions means that the people starve is narrow minded and what CNN likes force feeding you. The US could send thousands upon thousands of tons of food aid to North Korea and you know how much would make it to the people? Next to none, because that is exactly what Kim Jong Il wants. That's how the bastard stays in power, by keeping the people hungry and feeding them the lie that their empty bellies are the fault of South Korean and their imperialist puppetmaster the United States.

And oh, I'm sorry, the beginnings of normalized relationships with Cuba, the end of Apartheid in South Africa, the opening up of Lybia, none of that had anything to do with the fact that there was enormous international pressure put on those countries.