Separation of Church and State. New house bill that caught my eye...

**yayupp** · 07-01-09, 03:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZpREDn4NFA

Go see it!

I believe religion is such shit. It's an inconvenience on getting things that need to get done, done! (not sure if that really makes sense)

**Fajita!** · 07-01-09, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by WorstPE

No. Religion was created to explain the natural things happening on the earth. They branched out in a way to control people.

Humans have evolved to a point where we like other people around us. So we would rather not have them killed. So we feel that life is special. So we said, "let's not kill each other." But of course there are always bad apples in a group and will do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.

So what is stronger than a law? A sin. You sin you are punished more than if you break a law. So they used it as a fear tactic. Don't sin so God(s) will not punish you.

exactly:

It is a natural instinct to to kill others of your same species (of course there are many exceptions - ie. the black widow, but even in those cases the killing happens after reproduction.) that is why if 2 dogs get into a fight they will never purposefully kill each other (unless that instinct is driven out of them, ie: pitbulls)

Do dogs read the bible and know the 10 commandments? No it is a natural instinct . . . none of us would be alive today if everyone thought murder was fine, it's not belife in religion, it's nature. :P

**Consultant** · 07-01-09, 03:15 PM

*face palm*

**Red_Lizard2** · 07-01-09, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Jade,

the problem most people who are agnostic or atheist have is the rejection of the idea that their is a creator of one form or another.

Have to be nitpicky but agnostics tend to say they don't know if there is a creator rather then that there isn't one. In fact its possible to believe in god and still be agnostic.

[/nitpicky]

**Highstakes72** · 07-01-09, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Jade,

the problem most people who are agnostic or atheist have is the rejection of the idea that their is a creator of one form or another.

Have to be nitpicky but agnostics tend to say they don't know if there is a creator rather then that there isn't one. In fact its possible to believe in god and still be agnostic.

[/nitpicky]

Thats why I tried to mention "a creator in one form or another" athough I admit it was too vague...I think the intent carried however.

**HuntnJade** · 07-01-09, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Jade,

Do you believe that murder is wrong? How about theft? or Adultery? I think you do, correct me if I am wrong..but have you ever asked yourself why? Why is murder wrong? The answer is in the application of religion. Now, the problem most people who are agnostic or atheist have is the rejection of the idea that their is a creator of one form or another...Sure I get that, complex topic, limited human understanding of Universe....but religion is less about a particular diety and more about a fundamental agreement among a certain population on what constitutes a proper moral order...i.e. murder is bad... enough of those people fall into agreement and before long a religion appears. Sure terrible things have been done throughout history in the name of one religion or another but no different than any of the post modern ones...i.e. Global Warming Climate Change. The vast majortiy in the US are somewhat religious and/or identify as christians more or less but I would not worry...Most politicians lack a moral order all together. I am sure there are enough of them around that would redline the founding documents to suit the non-religous minority.

I am out on this one....God Bless.

ABSOLUTE BOLOGNA! Read your Bible friend. Murder, rape, incest... MANY other things we consider absolute crimes and immoral are not only upheld by the Bible they are Demanded by GOD! Human sacrifice--- HELLO, in the Bible! Time magazine did a huge expo on morals and where we derived them http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...686619,00.html have a look. In my estimation the Bible holds on for about 5 seconds as a moral guide. In my opinion we do not derive our morals from a book, or society, or anything else near as much as we do from empathy. Those of us who have it use it to judge wrong from right and act accordingly. Those of us who do not are psychopaths and neither religion nor societies laws can keep them in check. That is why you might speed or smoke dope but you wont go out and kill anybody (assuming you are not a psychopath ofcourse)... you have empathy and you hurt no one with your crime. Nope. I do not buy the Bible thing for one second. I have read too much of it to go there with yah. Scary. I end with one of my favorite quotes: "Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand. ~"Mark Twain

**HuntnJade** · 07-01-09, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Originally Posted by WorstPE

No. Religion was created to explain the natural things happening on the earth. They branched out in a way to control people.

Humans have evolved to a point where we like other people around us. So we would rather not have them killed. So we feel that life is special. So we said, "let's not kill each other." But of course there are always bad apples in a group and will do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.

So what is stronger than a law? A sin. You sin you are punished more than if you break a law. So they used it as a fear tactic. Don't sin so God(s) will not punish you.

Ah, So simple is it? All religions were wrought with the notion of establishing control over another person? What are Taoism, Buddhism even?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein

Einstein also said: "Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God."
Albert Einstein
Organized religion allowed for the taking of monies from people= tything and control over us in bringing us into groups and giving us something to hate others for. Whatever church you back becomes your moral duty to support and wala you have huge, rich, institutions full of voluntary backers all tax free. I have seen many filthy rich preachers, churches... tell me they don't have some power over that congregation...

**HuntnJade** · 07-01-09, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Jade,

the problem most people who are agnostic or atheist have is the rejection of the idea that their is a creator of one form or another.

Okay, aside from the Agnostic correction below... whata' bout it? I am not sure what this pertains too as far as what I have said. Please clarify

Have to be nitpicky but agnostics tend to say they don't know if there is a creator rather then that there isn't one. In fact its possible to believe in god and still be agnostic.

[/nitpicky]

Good job! Very true.

**deputyfestus** · 07-01-09, 07:53 PM

Hold on pardners there's a difference in all them thar ideology's

Noun

* S: (n) atheism, godlessness (the doctrine or belief that there is no God)
* S: (n) atheism (a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods)

Noun

* S: (n) agnostic, doubter (someone who is doubtful or noncommittal about something)
* S: (n) agnostic (a person who claims that they cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God (but does not deny that God might exist))

From a very early age I never had any affinity to any established religion and I explored many of them none of them struck accord. Then when the dead sea scrolls were deciphered and archeologist revealed that the Essenes had wrote them and they were a Gnostic sect, first I thought the dummies misspelled Agnostic........... I was wrong, after some further research I realized holy crap I've had very similar thoughts all my life so to sum it up I'm a Gnostic believer

Noun

* S: (n) Gnostic (an advocate of Gnosticism)
Noun

* S: (n) Gnosticism (a religious orientation advocating gnosis as the way to release a person's spiritual element; considered heresy by Christian churches)

Some of ya'll might want to explore Gnosticism further so here's a link
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/gnostici.htm

EDIT: Here Jade I'll through this in fer ya

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80330516657396

**Highstakes72** · 07-02-09, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by HuntnJade

Originally Posted by Highstakes72

Jade,

the problem most people who are agnostic or atheist have is the rejection of the idea that their is a creator of one form or another.

Okay, aside from the Agnostic correction below... whata' bout it? I am not sure what this pertains too as far as what I have said. Please clarify

Have to be nitpicky but agnostics tend to say they don't know if there is a creator rather then that there isn't one. In fact its possible to believe in god and still be agnostic.

[/nitpicky]

Good job! Very true.

What I meant is that many people who deny (atheist) or doubt (agnostic) do so because of a rejection of a singular diety or impression of divinity. Typically, religion from this perspective is so often trivialized as some sort of brainwashing or meaningless pursuit. This angle will completely ignore the underlying moral fabric that is innate in any religion. (good or bad) Religion carried forward a kind of code of conduct for early civilizations in verbal tradition, as many small kingdoms rose and fell it allowed people to normalize behavior outside of a direct, short-lived governing influence.