Man guilty of Homicide for praying

**Glitch** · 08-02-09, 02:19 PM

To paraphrase the punch line of a joke.

"I sent a cop, a boat, and a Helicopter what more did you want?"

**jmw_man** · 08-02-09, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by flame

Freedom of religion. He has the right to believe that his family doesn't need a doctor. Well within his constitutional rights. I believe in faith healing. Have family and close friends that were diagnosed with incurable cancer, gonna die, etc. People began praying and they went to the doctor a week later and had zero cancer.

Do I really think he shouldn't have taken the kid to the doctor. No. But we have sects within society who dont use electricity because of religous reasons. They seclude themselves from the world. Are we going to go against our constitution and say they are all wrong. They must live the way we live. That is the narrow minded thinking that takes away our freedoms. Yes it may be crazy, but far worse happens everyday. This guy had a religous conviction, none of you have the courage to hold faith in anything. I may not agree in avoiding the doctor, but I do believe we should protect our constitution, even if it protects idiots.

How many times does a person get away with a crime because of the 5th ammendment. Should we revoke it because it protects people in some cases. No it has been put in place to provide checks and balances in our free society. We are a free country unless someone is doing something unpopular.

Right, I would agree with you except, as I already mentioned and as did some others, he wasn't consistent in his beliefs. He only believed in God when it came to healing his daughter. Using societies who don't use electricity is a bad example because they live a certain way and every way through religious reasons.

**flame** · 08-02-09, 02:45 PM

Oh I 100% believe in doctors and medical care. Just playing the sides. I believe in freedom of religion even if it is not popular or includes strange things. I believe in prayer, I also believe you should help yourself. However that doesn't mean I should impose that you must go to a doctor on someone else. Was there more than meets the eye in this case, yes.

Also I understand that you protect your child. Some parents refuse to get their children immunized, same thing, no?
I just feel that there are lots of situations where the law is applied to cases for political reasons only. The law is the law, if we persecute this man, why not the others who do very similar things with the same results?

**Langrad** · 08-02-09, 03:14 PM

This is actualy interesting because many people will try it. I know iv heard of some cases recently where someone was kept from a hospitle by a parent because of belief in faith healing. Some people believe that much in god that they are willing to have something like this happen for the chance of god healing their loved one. I personaly dont think this was a good idea and I don't condone such actions (A smart man would argue that you are testing god rather then looking for healing) but if a family member doesnt request to be moved to the hospitle if they also believe that faith can heal then I think the parents shouldnt be charged for such actions.

**CanadianPersian** · 08-02-09, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Langrad

This is actualy interesting because many people will try it. I know iv heard of some cases recently where someone was kept from a hospitle by a parent because of belief in faith healing. Some people believe that much in god that they are willing to have something like this happen for the chance of god healing their loved one. I personaly dont think this was a good idea and I don't condone such actions (A smart man would argue that you are testing god rather then looking for healing) but if a family member doesnt request to be moved to the hospitle if they also believe that faith can heal then I think the parents shouldnt be charged for such actions.

not if they're under 18. then the parents have the DUTY to protect the child. a 12 year old doesn't have the judgment to make that kind of decision, the parent does.

**flame** · 08-02-09, 03:37 PM

You could argue that they are protecting their child from the medical world. Bad things happen people die at the hands of doctors all the time. Like I said parents refuse immunizations, protecting their child? They are the parent seeking to provide best. Nobody would have heard about anything if the child made a full recovery.
It is a very fine line, how much freedom do we want to give up to protect others not smart enough to make the best decision.

**~~hawgballs~~** · 08-02-09, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by flame

You could argue that they are protecting their child from the medical world. Bad things happen people die at the hands of doctors all the time. Like I said parents refuse immunizations, protecting their child? They are the parent seeking to provide best. Nobody would have heard about anything if the child made a full recovery.
It is a very fine line, how much freedom do we want to give up to protect others not smart enough to make the best decision.

Well if they are trying to "provide the best", I don't think there is one factual case of prayer healing or treating diabetes, and if there are documented cases, I would bet the house on science/medicine having millions more documented cases of success. If the parents tried to argue the same argument you put forward, they ought to be incarcerated for neglect alone. Of course nobody would have heard about anything, had the child made a full recovery, because the child would still be alive!!

**rock_lobster** · 08-02-09, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

I would like to see this guy's preacher be brought up on federal civil rights charges.
The preacher's action led to the direct and predictable result of a child perishing from a treatable illness.
I think using your religion to kill someone, through direct or indirect action, violates that person's civil rights.

I disagree. Just because someone preaches faith in God, doesnt mean they are an accessory to this crime. That's like holding gun companies accountable for shootings.

I'd like to know the size of the congregation of that church, because apparently the preacher's actions didnt affect 99.9% of the rest of the people. The father was being super-spiritual and non realistic and it cost his daughter her life. He should do some time, but not 25 years.

**rock_lobster** · 08-02-09, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Cleric

I guess we should arrest Amish people then when their children die of preventable diseases when dont take them to the hospital.

That is a very good point. Could it be that we as a society hold prejudice against "radical" "Christians" simply because we feel they are ridiculously biggoted? Why else would the Amish be allowed to do the same thing with no reprecussions?

The points about constitutional rights was also an interesting take on the issue, flame.

**MotoZ** · 08-02-09, 05:52 PM

Where are you guys getting info that Amish let their kids die with impunity? I Googled "Amish child neglect" and only found cases where the Amish got busted. Do any of you know of a documented case where the state prosecuted and lost? Or of a documented case where the secular community made allegations against the Amish and the state failed to act?

I'm genuinely curious.