Thread: President Obama's Speech

Originally Posted by deputyfestus

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by Gumby

Second, I have heard him speak to kids before. When he came here in June (he made a European trip and went to the D-Day memorial) he addressed my son's elementary school graduation by speaker phone and gave basically the same speech. So I kind of knew what to expect.

So did your son begin espousing the benefits of communism, or did your son try influencing your vote come 2012? Did he come back as an indoctrinated Nazi youth type? Must not have heard the same speech that these other guys have been so fearful of...........

Hawgballs is like a fanboy for Obama.

I accepted that as a fact a long time ago,but now I'm wondering if he's on the payroll or some familial relationship

Maybe he works for ACORN.... jk :P

I read about a couple of provisions; unionizing health care workers enmass, 10 billion dollar bailouts for insolvent health care programs for retired union members, restricting grant money for training nurses to only union members.

The objections arent a matter of obstructionism for the sake of partisanship. The objections are very real concerns about the specifics in this bill, which in its current form the majority of the country opposes.

You can write it up to disinformation, manfactured dissent, astro-turfers, or any other excuse that comes to mind. Doesn't do anything to change reality.

Camile Paglia summed it up pretty accurately, for an Obama supporting Democrat.

"Why did it take so long for Democrats to realize that this year's tea party and town hall uprisings were a genuine barometer of widespread public discontent and not simply a staged scenario by kooks and conspirators? "

And lastly, props to Joe Wilson, seems he took the presidents threat to the general public that "If you spread disinformation, we will call you out" and took him to task on it, right in the middle of the sales pitch. :9

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

What's the reason for the fine? I dont have health insurance, because I never use it. So now I will have to pay a fine for not having it? Seems a little odd to me. Either get our healthcare or we'll fine you anyway. Meh. :3

Not saying I'm for or against it rock..but to answer your question, because those who don't have health insurance cost those that do, money. Sure you don't need it, until you have a heart attack or a car crash and you go into ER, then, unless you're a millionaire, you can't pay, so those costs get passed on to the premium paying public in the form of higher premiums. Those with insurance pay for everyone in this country who don't, and it's a much higher price, because you won't go to the doctor until it's an emergency. The idea of the fine, is much like car insurance, you have to have it, or you get fined for costing everyone else money.

Like I said, I haven't decided if it's a good idea or not, I'm just explaining the rationale behind it, cuz you asked.

Originally Posted by Muqtar SGT_Clintok

I read about a couple of provisions; unionizing health care workers enmass, 10 billion dollar bailouts for insolvent health care programs for retired union members, restricting grant money for training nurses to only union members.

The objections arent a matter of obstructionism for the sake of partisanship. The objections are very real concerns about the specifics in this bill, which in its current form the majority of the country opposes.

You can write it up to disinformation, manfactured dissent, astro-turfers, or any other excuse that comes to mind. Doesn't do anything to change reality.

Yes, it is obstructionism for the sake of partisanship when all you talk about is how you want to kill health reform and that no amount of concessions or compromise is going to get you to vote for it. And that's what Republicans are doing. They are not going to support this bill even if they wrote it themselves.

Originally Posted by Muqtar SGT_Clintok

Camile Paglia summed it up pretty accurately, for an Obama supporting Democrat.

"Why did it take so long for Democrats to realize that this year's tea party and town hall uprisings were a genuine barometer of widespread public discontent and not simply a staged scenario by kooks and conspirators? "

Well, I think she is wrong, as she often is. Most people support the elements of this bill like a public option, however Democrats have been losing the message battle. Republicans are good at manipulating, lying, dumbing debate down, and scaring the populace. Democrats gave Americans too much credit as smart, critical thinkers and tried to present the plan in that manner. It doesn't work as well as shouting, say, "death panel" over and over.

Tea parties are inconsequential, and while many town hall people may have been genuine, they were encouraged by groups with ties to the health insurance industry and Faux Propaganda Network.

Originally Posted by Muqtar SGT_Clintok

And lastly, props to Joe Wilson, seems he took the presidents threat to the general public that "If you spread disinformation, we will call you out" and took him to task on it, right in the middle of the sales pitch. :9

ROFL! Joe Wilson of South Carolina said Obama lied, but he didn't. Joe Wilson, another Republican who doesn't let facts get in the way!

On a side note, his outburst has helped raise $680,000+ in about 30 hours for his opponent in 2010.

Originally Posted by Xoria

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

What's the reason for the fine? I don't have health insurance, because I never use it. So now I will have to pay a fine for not having it? Seems a little odd to me. Either get our healthcare or we'll fine you anyway. Meh. :3

Not saying I'm for or against it rock..but to answer your question, because those who don't have health insurance cost those that do, money. Sure you don't need it, until you have a heart attack or a car crash and you go into ER, then, unless you're a millionaire, you can't pay, so those costs get passed on to the premium paying public in the form of higher premiums. Those with insurance pay for everyone in this country who don't, and it's a much higher price, because you won't go to the doctor until it's an emergency. The idea of the fine, is much like car insurance, you have to have it, or you get fined for costing everyone else money.

Like I said, I haven't decided if it's a good idea or not, I'm just explaining the rationale behind it, cuz you asked.

When Medicare pays out 86 cents on the dollar or Medicaid pays out 75 cents on the dollar the difference is transfered to those with private insurance which is the same thing that will happen if there were to be a public option. This will drive the cost of private insurance up and force more people to use the public option. This, in turn, will drive private insurance out of business, which is the President's stated goal.


Fovezer, you and those like you are fighting a losing battle of bullshit.
Almost everything you say is incorrect in some form or another.

Joe Wilson was correct in that while there is no specific provision to cover illegals there is also no method of verifying immigration status.
That means illegals will get benefits.
The American people DO NOT support that in any way shape or form but when our President was a state Senator he did support a bill that would provide health and education for those who chose to enter our country illegally.

The Dems didn't mismanage the message.
They forgot GOOGLE exists and anyone can now go back and check on what was said in the past.
The people clearly DO NOT support a public option, hence the talk of removing it from the bill.
The death panels that you so shrilly claimed did not exist, were removed from the Senate version of the bill.


The tea parties are just the visible tip of the people's resistance to a government takeover of health care.
But your high handed contempt of the people exercising their First Amendment right of free assembly and redress of grievances is plain for all to see and there will be a backlash at the polls next year.
There have been millions of calls and emails to representatives and Senators and that is what is changing the tone of the debate.

The Democrats are the party of the astro-turf movement and the SEIU thuggery has proven that.

There are many other options besides the government taking over the health care industry.
The health care insurance industry is what needs reform, not health care itself.

So keep up the attacks, let everyone know that you feel the average American is stupid and incapable of deciding what is real and what is true.

I would also advise you to get ready to be the minority party in both the House and Senate for many years to come.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Hearing numerous comments by people on the right, most of what they say (and people at the Tea Parties, Town Halls etc.) have been spouting off nothing but Fox News and Republican Party nonsense those two have been throwing out. It seems they are less thinking for themselves and giving their opinion, and listening more to what 1/2 of the washington shitty parties want them to hear (should be able to guess what the other half of the washington shitty parites are)

Not saying people on the left aren't doing the same either. The amount of people out there saying people are against anything Obama does because he is black is becoming laughable. Whoever on the left decided that should be the defense is a fucking moron. I don't thnk people are against him just because he is black.


To the tea parties, my biggest question is still, with 8 years of Bush and 6 years of republicans in control, where were all these anti-big government people then? I don't remember seeing any big rallies on how Bush was increasing the power of the central government, stepping over the constitution etc. etc.

That a good question.
If the right could turn out that kind of power, how did they lose the Congress in 06 or the White House in 08 ?
Bush wasn't increasing the government at the same rate and before September 11, 2001 he did not have complete support of the right because of his socialist program on education.
Obama, on the other hand, wants to increase the gov by leaps and bounds.
In 9 months he has tripled the deficit and wants to go even further.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

Fovezer, you and those like you are fighting a losing battle of bullshit.
Almost everything you say is incorrect in some form or another.

I'm incorrect? Do you ever read your own posts? I don't think I have read anything you posted that was correct. I back up my statements with evidence, you just spout asinine bullshit.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

Joe Wilson was correct in that while there is no specific provision to cover illegals there is also no method of verifying immigration status.
That means illegals will get benefits.
The American people DO NOT support that in any way shape or form but when our President was a state Senator he did support a bill that would provide health and education for those who chose to enter our country illegally.

Example #1 of you being wrong. There is no provision to prevent illegals from BUYING insurance, just as there isn't any provision now. There are provisions to prevent them from receiving any benefits. Another example of you not letting facts get in your way.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

The Dems didn't mismanage the message.
They forgot GOOGLE exists and anyone can now go back and check on what was said in the past.
The people clearly DO NOT support a public option, hence the talk of removing it from the bill.
The death panels that you so shrilly claimed did not exist, were removed from the Senate version of the bill.

Example #2 of you being wrong. Do you actually read the news and polls, or are you content making shit up?
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/Poll...8-62b9d1ba8693
77% approve of a public option.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

The tea parties are just the visible tip of the people's resistance to a government takeover of health care.
But your high handed contempt of the people exercising their First Amendment right of free assembly and redress of grievances is plain for all to see and there will be a backlash at the polls next year.
There have been millions of calls and emails to representatives and Senators and that is what is changing the tone of the debate.

"Government takeover of health care?" You just eat up all the shit fed to you, don't you? I don't care if these tea baggers want to gather and say whatever they want to. Fact is it is not an extremely large movement. It is mostly extremists showing up and they are pushed by organizations like Faux News who spread misinformation.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

The Democrats are the party of the astro-turf movement and the SEIU thuggery has proven that.

There are many other options besides the government taking over the health care industry.
The health care insurance industry is what needs reform, not health care itself.

So keep up the attacks, let everyone know that you feel the average American is stupid and incapable of deciding what is real and what is true.

I would also advise you to get ready to be the minority party in both the House and Senate for many years to come.

The average American is dumb. We can be talked out of things that are good for us and into things that are bad for us. Hell, people believe bullshit like "death panels", "rationing care", "government bureaucrats", "government takeover of health care", etc. They buy into these little one-liners and can't comprehend the actual facts and data.

Originally Posted by Xoria

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

What's the reason for the fine? I dont have health insurance, because I never use it. So now I will have to pay a fine for not having it? Seems a little odd to me. Either get our healthcare or we'll fine you anyway. Meh. :3

Not saying I'm for or against it rock..but to answer your question, because those who don't have health insurance cost those that do, money. Sure you don't need it, until you have a heart attack or a car crash and you go into ER, then, unless you're a millionaire, you can't pay, so those costs get passed on to the premium paying public in the form of higher premiums. Those with insurance pay for everyone in this country who don't, and it's a much higher price, because you won't go to the doctor until it's an emergency. The idea of the fine, is much like car insurance, you have to have it, or you get fined for costing everyone else money.

Like I said, I haven't decided if it's a good idea or not, I'm just explaining the rationale behind it, cuz you asked.

You can look at it that way. Or you could look at it as health care has priced itself out of the market. There would not be a problem if bandaids and asprin at a hospital were 500 bucks a piece. A nuclear bone scan cost 40 g's. Thats 1 scan takes a total of 1 hour. 45 minute of sitting waiting on the shot to circulate and 15 minutes if your lucky to take the scan. They've made trillions of dollars over what they needed to at the cost of people in need.

Sorry my sympathy does not sit with the poor health care system. If they want everyone to have health care make it affordable. For the most part people want to have health care coverage but many can not afford it exspecially at this particular time.

They keep trying to pass the blame for health care onto the average person. That is bullshit. They keep raising taxes and starting new ones then want to turn around and say buy it or else. Health care is not up to our government to make decisions on. It is not within there scope of duties. Don't believe me then read contitution articule 1 section 8. General welfare clause which is what they are using to back themselves in no way gives them that right.

They have gone severely past there scope over the years and continue to infringe on everyones constitutional rights. This is just one more time they think they are justified in forcing everyone to bend to their will.

You did make one point I would like to address. You compaired auto insurance to health care. I can't speak for everyone but in Florida insurance is mandatory like every where else but if your insurance gets dropped your provider sends the info to the state you do not have coverage. Then your license is immediatly suspended.

At this point you now have to get new insurance and pay a reinstatement fee of which the state has seen fit to start at $150 the first time and goes up to $500. When this law passed auto insurance cost literally tripled in price over night. I have 3 vehicle of which i pay just under $9000 a year just to keep auto insurance. Of which i guess it doesn't matter that I have never had an accident that was my fault nor was anyone ever injured.

Is this what we can exspect when it becomes law for everyone to have and maintain health coverage. I already spend a fortune on health care coverage for my wife and I. So what they can pass the law and the price to go up. People say thats not going to happen. Really do you honestly think it won't? The precidence is already there. Everytime something becomes mandatory the price goes up.

I don't give 2 shits what Obama says. The price is going to be lowered. Yeah right so are our taxes as well isn't that what was said. Yet here we are paying taxes that weren't even around before he got into office. I call them how i see them. He hasn't helped anyone but the rich so far empty promises are just that empty. With the kind of help he gives we're all going to be bankrupt.