How others feel about this governments plan.

**WorstPE** · 09-11-09, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by BruceBloodMaster

I find it Almost laughable when someone that speaks out (with a microphone) is labeled a Nutcase by you Fovezer. He was exercising his Right to Free Speech and he did it in a civil way to boot. He was questioning His Employee as to his beliefs on a relevant subject. I personally Support this Marine who put his life on the line for this country and who has the Scars to prove it !

I don't care that he was speaking out. I care that he was so wrong about pretty much everything he said.

Originally Posted by WorstPE

For you I'll pull up Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_2008

That really doesn't look like a crushing to me.

It was crushing electorally, and quite decisive vote-wise. But you forgot the House with its 42 seat swing and the Senate with its 16 seat swing(18 with Specter's switch).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2008

D R
President: Percentage 52.9% 45.7%
House: Percentage 52.9% 45.7%
Senate: Percentage 51.3% 45.4%

Electorally, whatever. By popular opinion the nation was pretty split down the middle.

**deathgodusmc** · 09-11-09, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by BruceBloodMaster

I find it Almost laughable when someone that speaks out (with a microphone) is labeled a Nutcase by you Fovezer. He was exercising his Right to Free Speech and he did it in a civil way to boot. He was questioning His Employee as to his beliefs on a relevant subject. I personally Support this Marine who put his life on the line for this country and who has the Scars to prove it !

I don't care that he was speaking out. I care that he was so wrong about pretty much everything he said.

Originally Posted by WorstPE

For you I'll pull up Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_2008

That really doesn't look like a crushing to me.

It was crushing electorally, and quite decisive vote-wise. But you forgot the House with its 42 seat swing and the Senate with its 16 seat swing(18 with Specter's switch).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2008

Im sorry how was he wrong in anything he said? Your going to have to be specific because from what i saw he said nothing that was wrong.

**Blakeman** · 09-11-09, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Blah blah blah. People support health reform and a public option. People don't buy the shit you are peddling anymore, which is why Republicans got CRUSHED in 2008.

I don't support a public option because I don't support a federal run health care system over a state run one. If California wants to set it up so that illegal immigrants are paid for then they can pay the taxes on that. If Kentucky wants to set it up so that you get a public option under X amount of income then they should pay for that.

All these federal plans don't work in the end because they are to vague, too general, and are usually mismanaged to the point they loose money hand over fist in waste.

Hopefully R and D gets "crushed" in this next election by Libertarians.

**QuickLightning** · 09-11-09, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Hopefully R and D gets "crushed" in this next election by Libertarians.

I wouldn't hold your breath. :3

**Blakeman** · 09-11-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by QuickLightning

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Hopefully R and D gets "crushed" in this next election by Libertarians.

I wouldn't hold your breath. :3

Oh I don't. Might be a pipe dream to think that folks will stop believing everything their party spoon feeds them and that folks will stop voting by party just because "My family always votes for X party". That folks will look into things on their own and actually give a damn where the country is headed. That folks will know that 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is the White House and know it better than "who lives in a pineapple under the sea".

But hey, politicians are only looking out for us over their own interests and career right?

**Fovezer** · 09-11-09, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Im sorry how was he wrong in anything he said? Your going to have to be specific because from what i saw he said nothing that was wrong.

WTF is talking about, "indoctrinating my kids"? That's a lie, no one is trying to indoctrinate his kids into anything. It's irrational paranoia. He got Nazism all wrong about being a left-wing ideology. It is fascism and a far-right ideology. (National Socialism is a misnomer.) Then he says we see it in this administration? That makes the guy nuts and extremely ignorant.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

I don't support a public option because I don't support a federal run health care system over a state run one. If California wants to set it up so that illegal immigrants are paid for then they can pay the taxes on that. If Kentucky wants to set it up so that you get a public option under X amount of income then they should pay for that.

All these federal plans don't work in the end because they are to vague, too general, and are usually mismanaged to the point they loose money hand over fist in waste.

It's not a federally-run health care system, though. It is a government-run insurance plan. I disagree that they don't work, and it is just that; an OPTION. A choice.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Hopefully R and D gets "crushed" in this next election by Libertarians.

Eh, no thanks. I'd take Libertarians over Republicans anytime though, because at least I agree with them on social issues!

**Blakeman** · 09-11-09, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

It's not a federally-run health care system, though. It is a government-run insurance plan. I disagree that they don't work, and it is just that; an OPTION. A choice.

Have you read the bill? I have.

Insurance and health care go hand in hand in US society. Insurance is what pays a lot of the bills after all. (depending on your coverage)

In the end we are better off with tort reform at first and seeing if that lowers cost. Again I would favor money being distributed to the states from the fed in order for them to come up with their own plans. This could potentially cause a lot of chaos in the health care industry if it goes through, and I hope that nobody gets lost through the cracks if it does.

**Fovezer** · 09-11-09, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Have you read the bill? I have.

Parts. Not the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Insurance and health care go hand in hand in US society. Insurance is what pays a lot of the bills after all. (depending on your coverage)

Insurance pays the bills, but most insurance companies do not own hospitals. They do not administer the care. They just pay the bills.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

In the end we are better off with tort reform at first and seeing if that lowers cost. Again I would favor money being distributed to the states from the fed in order for them to come up with their own plans. This could potentially cause a lot of chaos in the health care industry if it goes through, and I hope that nobody gets lost through the cracks if it does.

Tort reform is not going to put a dent in anything. It's not going to lower premiums. I'm not against it, but it is not going to lower costs because it doesn't attack the root problems. The reform is not going to substantially change the system. Everyone who has health insurance gets to keep it, this just looks to drop costs and provide more choice.

And I respect the fact that you at least have an idea of what you would like see done instead, even though I disagree with you. It allows for real debate. Most of the time people against reform are just shouting about how they don't want "socialism" or some other nonsense.

**Blakeman** · 09-11-09, 02:04 PM

Well if folks actually devote themselves to one hour a week reading up on their federal AND local governments actions then we would have a better country as a whole. I know neighbors of mine who don't know who the governor of our state is, nor our mayor....

If you want to be a peasant then you can be lazy and become oppressed, if you want improvement in your life you must remain informed of the goings on of those above you.

my quote or the day

Democrats want to be your mommy, Republicans want to be your daddy and Libertarians want you to become your own person.

**Fovezer** · 09-11-09, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Well if folks actually devote themselves to one hour a week reading up on their federal AND local governments actions then we would have a better country as a whole. I know neighbors of mine who don't know who the governor of our state is, nor our mayor....

If you want to be a peasant then you can be lazy and become oppressed, if you want improvement in your life you must remain informed of the goings on of those above you.

I agree. But you also have to search out the truth, not just accept as a given whatever you hear on TV or radio.

Originally Posted by Blakeman

my quote or the day

Democrats want to be your mommy, Republicans want to be your daddy and Libertarians want you to become your own person.

More like Libertarians ascribe to "I got mine, so screw you" philosophy. Unfortunately, I am not wealthy enough to be a libertarian.