How others feel about this governments plan.

**CallousDisregard** · 09-12-09, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by deputyfestus

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

Originally Posted by [SWC

Erik Thorsen ]
"Libertarianism simply won't work in this country"... Yeah... wait what was the name of that country somewhere around here that was founded on Libertarian principles and quickly became the most powerful, most successful, most wealthy superpower in the world?

Ah well. Too bad it wouldn't work for us Americans.

ummm was it the Soviet Union .??
No no no
It was the Peoples Republic of somewhere right ?

It's kinda funny that place may become the new land of liberty

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers...202/story.html

I have always thought the Chinese would take over the world.
They just need a generation or two to absorb the lessons of Hong Kong.

**howitzer88** · 09-12-09, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by [SWC

Erik Thorsen ]
"Libertarianism simply won't work in this country"... Yeah... wait what was the name of that country somewhere around here that was founded on Libertarian principles and quickly became the most powerful, most successful, most wealthy superpower in the world?

Ah well. Too bad it wouldn't work for us Americans.

Libertarianism?! Are you stupid or something? If you can recall anything about American history, then you'd remember that the only thing that had to do with libertarian principles was the government set up by the Articles of Confederation which SUCKED ASS and had to be replaced by a little something called the American CONSTITUTION. Libertarians suck!

**CallousDisregard** · 09-12-09, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by howitzer88

Originally Posted by [SWC

Erik Thorsen ]
"Libertarianism simply won't work in this country"... Yeah... wait what was the name of that country somewhere around here that was founded on Libertarian principles and quickly became the most powerful, most successful, most wealthy superpower in the world?

Ah well. Too bad it wouldn't work for us Americans.

Libertarianism?! Are you stupid or something? If you can recall anything about American history, then you'd remember that the only thing that had to do with libertarian principles was the government set up by the Articles of Confederation which SUCKED ASS and had to be replaced by a little something called the American CONSTITUTION. Libertarians suck!

I'm Stew Pid, how do you do ?
Can you tell me how the libertarian principles in the Articles failed and how the Constitution was an improvement ?
Explain the penumbra while you are at it.

**Thorsen** · 09-12-09, 11:29 PM

Hey chill out man, you'd think I insulted your mom or something.

Yeah, we did adopt the Constitution later. You'll find if you read the Constitution that it is still largely agreeable to the Libertarian mindset. And that in fact there really is not as much difference between them as you'd think. The single biggest real change was allowing Congress to actually tax states. All the ideals of personal freedom, property rights, right of association, right to one's own body, in other words the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, are still there in the Constitution. The Constitution has gone downhill in some ways and up in others since then. The problem is how little we honor it anymore.

You can call me names all day, but America was founded on Libertarian principles, you even admitted it yourself.

**rock_lobster** · 09-13-09, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Well if folks actually devote themselves to one hour a week reading up on their federal AND local governments actions then we would have a better country as a whole. I know neighbors of mine who don't know who the governor of our state is, nor our mayor....

If you want to be a peasant then you can be lazy and become oppressed, if you want improvement in your life you must remain informed of the goings on of those above you.

my quote or the day

Democrats want to be your mommy, Republicans want to be your daddy and Libertarians want you to become your own person.

Democrats want to regulate the things most important to Americans... money and health care. Republicans want no regulation, which is why we are in this mess. No regulation, no accountability... nothing... at least for the past 8 years. This, of course, is a generalization, but who do you trust? The government, or the banker? The banker already fucked us royally... now the government wants to help, and the Republicans can't stop bitching about it because we are going to have to pay for it in the long run. No shit! When the country is fucked, you just can't expect for it to fix itself without the tax payers paying taxes. Republicans don't want to take ANY responsibility. So daddy must be a selfish prick.

Hmm... think of that. Tax payers actually paying taxes to make things better instead of getting rebates while at the same time we are spending 11 billion/month on a war.

Libertarianism just won't work in this country.

Heavy, I love ya brother, but you need to lay off whatever it is your drinking, if you think more government involvement in money and healthcare is a good idea.

More government involvement = more problems. But Obama insists on acting like we should just let him and his gang take over everything major, and make it all better. We let him and the rest of his clown ass czars run our shit like he wants to, and we are looking at pretty grim future for this great nation.

But what do i know, apparently I am a Nazi because I disagree with christ Obama's plans. God I cant wait to get my check in the mail.....

**HeavyG** · 09-13-09, 11:50 AM

I disagree. Less government = more problems. Failing to regulate our financial sector is why we are in this situation. All of the fraud that has been serviced. What about Madoff and all of the other scammers ripping off millions of dollars from Americans. What about all of the Mortgage companies that went unregulated and took on too much risky debt?

Sure, they can blame Bill Clinton and his push for FHA housing, but it is still the Lender's fault for taking on so much debt. Please don't get me started on the mortgage companies. There should have been 10 times the regulation from them. Take Taylor Bean and Whitaker. My mortgage was sold to Taylor Bean and Whitaker earlier this year. They were buying up a shitload of mortgages. They were the 3rd largest FHA lender. Well it turns out, they failed to file their reports to FHA, were forced to shut down, and their loans were transferred to Bank of America.

Yea, so it appears that FHA is doing the right thing by suspending Taylor Bean and Whitaker from servicing FHA loans, but they were also raided by the FEDs under investigation of fraud. Apparently, they were lying on loan applications, increasing people's salaries and such. With no auditing process until it is much too late.

This is another example of the Mortgage companies giving loans to people that simply cannot afford them, or are at a high risk based on their income. If the Mortgage companies did not approve as many loans to risky borrowers, the country would not be in this situation. You cannot blame Clinton and FHA for this, as many right wing talk show hosts have tried to do. The BANKS still lend the money... not the Government. The Government simply insures the loan.

Less regulation, or poor regulation caused this. We all know the real-estate bubble bursting is what has caused this recession. People can't pay for their houses, or even sell them because they are worth 30-40% less than when they bought them. They can't get new cars because they are paying their ridiculous adjustable rate mortgage payment... they don't want to lose their house. I am ashamed of the mortgage companies. You should never, ever, trust a banker. They don't give a shit about you. They just care that you make your payment, and they get their interest. If you don't pay, they take everything back.

And don't get me started about the health care industry. I work in it, and I see how people are ripped off every single day. If it isn't the insurance companies scamming the people that really need the insurance, or if it is drug companies over charging for their "name brand" medication and changing the patent so they can prevent the generic from being released... it all comes down to one thing. These are all businesses that are out there to make money. So when times are tough, the American people have to suffer, but the health care companies do not. There is a shitload of fraud in the health care industry. You hear about it all the time... people getting denied or delayed coverage, even tough it is clearly spelled out on their policies. Many Americans have died due to either no health care coverage, or health care coverage that is pulled away from them as soon as they have a "pre-existing condition" that they didn't even know about. Again, the lack of Government regulation is causing problems.

Sure, I might be a wacked out Liberal, but I see a lot of things that are not working. Mainly the mortgage and health care industries. We can talk again in a few years when Social Security fails and our grandparents are kicked out on the streets. But why change things, right? I mean, obviously if something was created a long time ago, it must be flawless, right?

**CivilWars** · 09-13-09, 12:00 PM

So if they weren't regulated why did they get raided and shut down? Oh, I guess they were regulated, but those regulations were not enforced. So let's set up more rules that we can't/won't enforce?

**CallousDisregard** · 09-13-09, 12:52 PM

I have an idea !
Legalize marijuana and take all that money and resources and make the SEC a reality and just in general, enforce the law.
When was the last time any of you filled out and I-9 form ?

**rock_lobster** · 09-13-09, 02:06 PM

Heavy, I would rather not have an entire nation that is almost soley dependent upon their own government to survive. If you think less government = more problems, then I dont even know where to start or if I should even try to explain why that makes no sense at all. You keep giving Obama and his czars the power, you'll be ready to leave this country soon....if our government will allow it

Sorry, anything the government takes control of, almost always winds up in the shitter.

**HeavyG** · 09-13-09, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So if they weren't regulated why did they get raided and shut down? Oh, I guess they were regulated, but those regulations were not enforced. So let's set up more rules that we can't/won't enforce?

FHA did their part... which I stated in my post. They were raided AFTER the crimes had been committed. After the Fraud had been going on for years. A day late and a dollar short in my book. Just like Madoff. Sure, he is in prison for the rest of his life, but he ruined the lives of millions. How many more Enrons and World Coms do we need before enough is enough?