Thread: Astroturf Grows

Originally Posted by deputyfestus

So I guess you fell the same about the cap n traders, pro healthers and the people calling Obama the best thing since sliced bread and peanut butter

My problem comes not from the fact that they disagree with Obama. Hell, I disagree with Obama on a number of things, too. It is HOW they disagree and the insane crap and lies they come up with to validate that disagreement. It's one thing to say, "I disagree with Obama on health reform because I am against a public option" and it is another to say, "I disagree with Obama because he is a socialist communist Marxist fascist who wants to kill old people." But other than that, I guess we kind of do feel the same way.

Originally Posted by dex71

ALL protests....no matter what side of the argument you sit on bring out the nut-jobs. The War protesters and the ones at the Republican Convention come to mind. Sure,there were a lot of decent,normal people there,just like the one today,but all of the whack jobs come out to protest....no matter the issue.

Yeah, both sides will bring out their nuts during protests, but the tea bagging nuts are the mainstream among that group. They made up a majority of the group, which is not the case on the other side.

Originally Posted by dex71

And if you libs think that hundreds of thousands to possibly a million people marched to one man's request....not only do you need your heads examined,but you should be very very afraid come mid-term election time. You can downplay and say whatever you want about the T-Baggers....but they vote too....are are probably MUCH stronger than you think. Go ahead....keep underestimating the power of the people....that's what the Republicans did,and look where that got them.

A million?! Don't make me laugh! It was tens of thousands, anywhere from probably 40,000 to 70,000. ABC News said 60-70,000. They couldn't even muster 100,000 even with a TV station giving the event free and nonstop advertising. If anything, this even proved to me that they were weaker than I thought.

Originally Posted by dex71

I think the Dems in Congress know their days are numbered.....otherwise,why would they try to rush soo many huge bill through so quickly? So fast in fact,that most don't have the time to even read them.....like the largest spending bill in the history of the World wasn't worth reading before being voted on.

The majority party often looses seats in midterms, but they will not lose control over both chambers. As for not reading the bills, give me a break. What about Senator Inhofe, who said he would vote no without reading the bill? Do you think that is wrong? Often times lawmakers don't read the whole bill. That's why they have aides. Now we can argue if this is right or not, but both sides do it the exact same.

But his aides read it.
Well they read the part that applies to most of his constituents anyway.
Ok they only read part of that too but it's ok because we have the smartest man ever in the White House.

Just curious.....were all of you Obamaniacs as critical of the astro-turfing of the anti-war movement as you are about people who organize to support their own interests ?
Or the 9-11 Truthers?
Or did you not focus on the fringe elements there but you do when it is people you disagree with ?

But in the end who cares what you say ?
This isn't about convincing leftists to change so if the they want to poke fun and call names ....good.
It just makes for more fodder come 2010.



Time lapse of the crowd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc...layer_embedded

Originally Posted by dex71

Bullshit. In fact.....laughable. Maybe I should pull some pics of the "mainstreamers" that were protesting the Republican Convention.

There were FAR more people there than there were at the Tea baggers rally, and I never said you wouldn't find nuts at both. What I said was, as this was a much smaller rally, it has a far higher nut-to-sane person ratio.

Originally Posted by dex71

Whatever....just promise me that you will keep underestimating,and keep poking at the sleeping giant. I am old enough to remember hearing the same shit when Carter ran for a second term. Remember how that turned out?

The problem is the "sleeping giant" doesn't exist, as evidenced by this rally. They were planning and advertising this for months, and predicted around a million people would show up. Using the high estimate for the number of people that showed up, they got 7% of what they were hoping for. Obama held a rally today also, and got 15,000+ to show up on 6 days notice.

Originally Posted by dex71

What would you rather have? A guy who votes NO for a bill he hasn't read,or a guy who votes yes to the biggest spending bill in the history of mankind without reading it? Please....

So you have a double standard? Good to know.

There is name calling on both sides...but I only hear one side calling for rational discourse, (except for one here where I have had the pleasure of debating with some gloriously informed righties) I only hear one side saying, bring me ideas, let's talk..

You are right Callous, the die-hards won't change their minds..those who are proud to be zealot left or right will continue to embarrass everyone with their lunacy..

I stay in these things because I think this is one of the most important debates of my lifetime, and the only way I can understand why those that don't think like I do, is to debate with them, to talk to them like rational adults. People who say that everyone who voted for or supports the President..thinks he's the smartest man in the world...and people who scream that all the opposition are comparing Obama to Hitler, don't do anything but get ratings and line the pockets of the fat cats running the syndicates. Neither one will affect anything in the long run, other than making someone else rich.

The rational debaters, on the sidelines, who get no news, are the ones who will shape public policy, who will cut through the crap until we come out on the other side, are the ones who will do the work, read the bills and figure out what's best to do. I applaud everyone on here, left or right, when they make a good point, or raise a good question, provide a pertinenent (sp) fact, especially if they can keep a thread growing with a minimum of vitriol and name-calling :P

I don't have time, and this country doesn't have time, to waste any more energy on those who just want attention for attention's sake, of those who are so afraid of anything changing, that they'll fight it without thinking...I write letters, I make calls, and I'm going to rallies...you want to debate with me fine, cool, rock on America! You want to intimidate and spit lies and just keep screaming so that no other voice can be heard? Then I'll do the same thing I did when my little brother used to pitch a fit when he couldn't have a cookie and was bound and determined to ruin everyone's day until he got what he wanted. I ignored him, it's the only thing he deserved.

Oh and Callous, this whole thing isn't entirely directed at you btw, just the sentence where I mentioned you..I just got up on my soapbox after that. I do think you're a bit fond of overgeneralizing, but I haven't written you off entirely.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

Just curious.....were all of you Obamaniacs as critical of the astro-turfing of the anti-war movement as you are about people who organize to support their own interests ?
Or the 9-11 Truthers?
Or did you not focus on the fringe elements there but you do when it is people you disagree with ?

The anti-war movement wasn't astroturfing. What corporation would fund and set up fake anti-war groups? The anti-war groups were grassroots. As for the Truthers, yeah, they're nuts, and some showed up. Just like Birthers showed up at the tea bagger rally. While the Birthers may be the fringe at these rallies, I was more talking about the people with the "communist" and "socialist" crap.

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

Time lapse of the crowd

Oh, how cute! Look at all those people! All 60,000 of them! Should we compare it to the 1.4 million Obama had on his inauguration?