Thread: Hermaphrodites in sports

Originally Posted by CivilWars

And once again i ask what determines what side of the line you are on, what is on the outside, or what is going on on the inside?

The world is a complicated place so every problem can't easily be solved with a less than complicated solution. It's best to keep it simple so they divided athletics between male and female.

You didn't answer the question though. So if I am born a male, but at an early age have a sex change because I don't like being male can I compete with/against the females? If no, and many have said this is wrong, why? If it is because I have male hormones and such that make it unfair for me to compete against females then could the same be said for her?

I am not disputing that there should be lines between male and female. My question is what determines where the criteria for the line is, and who is responsible for ultimately deciding which side you fall on?

Originally Posted by CivilWars

You didn't answer the question though. So if I am born a male, but at an early age have a sex change because I don't like being male can I compete with/against the females? If no, and many have said this is wrong, why? If it is because I have male hormones and such that make it unfair for me to compete against females then could the same be said for her?

I am not disputing that there should be lines between male and female. My question is what determines where the criteria for the line is, and who is responsible for ultimately deciding which side you fall on?

that's my point, everybody can easily agree on drawing the line between male and female, going any further in-depth and the opinions become so widespread that a decision is much harder to achieve. Some will say yes, some will say no, some will say they have unfair advantages, others will say they don't, etc.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

You didn't answer the question though. So if I am born a male, but at an early age have a sex change because I don't like being male can I compete with/against the females? If no, and many have said this is wrong, why? If it is because I have male hormones and such that make it unfair for me to compete against females then could the same be said for her?

I am not disputing that there should be lines between male and female. My question is what determines where the criteria for the line is, and who is responsible for ultimately deciding which side you fall on?

It is where a majority of the people chose to draw their line.

I draw mine at how you were made by nature. Elective modifications made after that are out of bounds. You can't replace your legs with hydraulic jacks and compete in a high jump competition. You can't drive a car and compete in a foot race.

Sure you can argue that driving a motor vehicle is using your brain more than your muscles and that should allow you to win, but then it isn't a foot race it is a brain race. Go compete in that.

My point was if she did not willingly violate any rules, which she seems to have not then bully to her. Go kick some ass girl.

As for why have separate sports for men and women that is easy. As far as I am concerned they shouldn't and I don't think do at the top end. If a 126 lb Feather weight boxer wants a shot at the Hvy Wt title I say let him go for it. If a woman wants to try out for the NFL/NHL/MLB/Nascar(oh wait)/PGA/insertsporthere more power to her.

The restrictions are (should be) only for people below the top end. The Fly Weight division in boxing isn't because they think they are better than the Hvy Weight it exists to give the guys that are that size competition they can compete with.

Boxing is the easiest to demonstrate it. Fly weight is 112 and under. Superfly Weight is 115 and under (or your name is Jimmy Snuka) what is the difference between a 113 and 112 lbs in a fight? none really. It is where the line was drawn because it had to be drawn somewhere.

The problem with Track and Field isn't a line but the lack of one. IT is an undefined area that needs better definition. I am just weighing in on where I think it should be defined at.

(title 9 being ENTIRELY different as it is only about public schools funding of various sports not about them existing at all)

Originally Posted by Glitch

Originally Posted by TehSpaz

I say just test her for testosterone.....whether it's naturally/internally produced or injected, she has a performance enhancing substance in her body.



Having that source of testosterone is a natural advantage over all other women.....why should she have an advantage over everyone else she competes with?

What is next keep tall people from playing basketball? They have an unfair advantage agasint me and I am 6'3"

Should fat guys not be allowed to be Offensive Linemen? or sumo wrestlers? Geniuses not allowed to play chess?

Micheal Jordon had an unfair advantage in Basket Ball for years. Maybe he had a 3rd ball we don't know about or maybe his bones were woven like a birds bones lighter and stronger allowing him to jump higher. He was obviously better than anyone near him.

Some people have an advantage. Some people are better.

If this had been a guy taping stuff up or someone that had chosen a sex change operation then I would be all for banning his ass. However this person is the way god made her. She is better and running and will have a harder time in other areas of her life. More power to her.

First of all your comparing team sports to individual sport and in the red I'll give two very good arguments against the tall guys! John Stockton and Calvin Murphy, as for Jordan he never met a ref. that didn't like him

As for your argument of the eyeball test there is more difference in man and woman than outside experience, and I highly doubt a twig and berries alone make men faster or stronger. I could care less about what she has on the outside, and care much more about what is going on inside in terms of her athletic career.

Originally Posted by deputyfestus

Originally Posted by Glitch

Originally Posted by TehSpaz

I say just test her for testosterone.....whether it's naturally/internally produced or injected, she has a performance enhancing substance in her body.



Having that source of testosterone is a natural advantage over all other women.....why should she have an advantage over everyone else she competes with?

What is next keep tall people from playing basketball? They have an unfair advantage agasint me and I am 6'3"

Should fat guys not be allowed to be Offensive Linemen? or sumo wrestlers? Geniuses not allowed to play chess?

Micheal Jordon had an unfair advantage in Basket Ball for years. Maybe he had a 3rd ball we don't know about or maybe his bones were woven like a birds bones lighter and stronger allowing him to jump higher. He was obviously better than anyone near him.

Some people have an advantage. Some people are better.

If this had been a guy taping stuff up or someone that had chosen a sex change operation then I would be all for banning his ass. However this person is the way god made her. She is better and running and will have a harder time in other areas of her life. More power to her.

First of all your comparing team sports to individual sport and in the red I'll give two very good arguments against the tall guys! John Stockton and Calvin Murphy, as for Jordan he never met a ref. that didn't like him

You forgot Spud Webb

No one says shorter people can't play, my point is about an "unfair" advantage due to Shaq's genetics.

On the other side of the coin is Shawn Bradley tall but not good. He relied solely on his hieght. His genetics made him millions of dollars cause his skill sure didn't get him that far.

So then what is different about a man and a woman that gives one enough of an advantage over the other that we need to draw lines between them athletically? Is it just the penis and the vagina? Is it things going on internally that we can't see with the naked eye? If it is the latter, then my opinion is these tests are necessary to determine which side of the line she should fall on. I still agree that the specifics of the tests should remain private and confidential, and all the public needs to know is she competes with the men or the women.

Do they conduct these tests on all athletes, if not, then she should not be tested. There are plenty of men and women out there that can pass off as the opposite sex.

As for the test goes, if they prove that she is a woman, then she should compete.

Yes, athletes are tested for tons of chemicals and substances.