Congress passes Gitmo bill

**CallousDisregard** · 11-03-09, 05:14 AM

Murder is not " according to me" it is a law that defines when killing is illegal.
If you are not at war with Germany or you are a civilian, then killing Hitler is murder.
It is also immoral to take the life of another, but as I mentioned, NOT killing Hitler would be the greater crime.

**Red_Lizard2** · 11-03-09, 05:23 AM

murder is a good example again BECAUSE it is a law. Killing is no law, Murder is.

The whole point is we can't argue if Torture is morally right or wrong because for some it is and some it isn't. Just for some Murdering Hitler would be wrong, and some it be right.

So the only argument one can make is on legality of torture or Enhanced Interrogations (which i'm not saying EI is or isn't).

**jmw_man** · 11-03-09, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

murder is a good example again BECAUSE it is a law. Killing is no law, Murder is.

The whole point is we can't argue if Torture is morally right or wrong because for some it is and some it isn't. Just for some Murdering Hitler would be wrong, and some it be right.

So the only argument one can make is on legality of torture or Enhanced Interrogations (which i'm not saying EI is or isn't).

Thank you, that's exactly what I was arguing before with Hawg. This goes for everything, there NEVER is a fine line between right and wrong because it varies for everybody so arguing over the moral standpoint of something is a waste of time.

**CallousDisregard** · 11-03-09, 07:42 AM

I don't agree at all.
We, as a society, can determine that torture is morally wrong as well as illegal.
We can see torture as morally wrong even if it is legal.
Abortion is a good example of that since many feel it is immoral but it is legal.

POST LAG EDIT: Morality is what defines society, you can't just go around making up your own morals to suit the situation and expect the word morality to actually mean anything.

**jmw_man** · 11-03-09, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

I don't agree at all.
We, as a society, can determine that torture is morally wrong as well as illegal.
We can see torture as morally wrong even if it is legal.
Abortion is a good example of that since many feel it is immoral but it is legal.

POST LAG EDIT: Morality is what defines society, you can't just go around making up your own morals to suit the situation and expect the word morality to actually mean anything.

Abortion IS a good example, some feel it's immoral, some feel going forward with particular pregnancies is immoral. You just proved my point by having an agenda. You are against abortion because YOU are against abortion. You are not speaking for society, you are speaking only for your morals so you think everybody should believe what you believe.

We as a society CANNOT determine whether something is moral or immoral because it varies on a case by case basis.

**~~hawgballs~~** · 11-03-09, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

I don't agree at all.
We, as a society, can determine that torture is morally wrong as well as illegal.
We can see torture as morally wrong even if it is legal.
Abortion is a good example of that since many feel it is immoral but it is legal.

POST LAG EDIT: Morality is what defines society, you can't just go around making up your own morals to suit the situation and expect the word morality to actually mean anything.

And here I thought that you would never make a post that I can agree at all. But alas..... We found the "diamond in the rough".

**~~hawgballs~~** · 11-03-09, 08:11 AM

But I would venture to say that, as a whole, torture is seen as morally wrong, hence the laws against torture. As far as the "case by case" basis, out of 100 people, if two say that torture isn't morally wrong while the rest agree that it is,..... the morality question isn't negated because there is a lack of consensus...... It is overwhelmingly accepted that torture is wrong.

**jmw_man** · 11-03-09, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by hawgballs

But I would venture to say that, as a whole, torture is seen as morally wrong, hence the laws against torture. As far as the "case by case" basis, out of 100 people, if two say that torture isn't morally wrong while the rest agree that it is,..... the morality question isn't negated because there is a lack of consensus...... It is overwhelmingly accepted that torture is wrong.

Very true, if you ask a large group of people, the majority of the people will say it is morally wrong so it makes sense that it is overwhelmingly accepted as wrong.

As for the case by case basis, If the large group of people each had 5 year old daughters that were raped, I'm sure they would want to and would in fact torture the man responsible if they had the chance. If they thought it was morally wrong, why would they do it?

**BruceBloodMaster** · 11-03-09, 08:50 AM

This is such a useless arguement ....... and nobody will change their minds about how they feel about torture or its uses. Having said that I feel that Anyone caught on the "battlefield" is open to Anything that accomplishes the mission, the terrorists seem to agree with this. All areas of the battlefield are hostile........ hmmmm I heard that somewhere before. I also feel that No Quarter should be given to people who chop heads off people who don't agree with Their Religion. So in that, I feel they should all be shot buried face down in the dirt and slosh their asses with pig fat. I know alot of you will disagree with my view but there it is.

**jmw_man** · 11-03-09, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by BruceBloodMaster

This is such a useless arguement ....... and nobody will change their minds about how they feel about torture or its uses.

And this is one thing that everyone should agree on. You can't debate morals, opinions change all the time depending on the situation or circumstances. This is also one thing that here in the US we are allowed to agree on, but the hard leftists and rightists argue their beliefs as if there is no other.