I don't understand

**CallousDisregard** · 10-24-09, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Sora

Simple solution. If we find an illegal in our country, take them out of there house into the public and shoot them down for everyone to see.

I bet they would stop coming in illegally then.
Southern California's population is roughly 48% Illegal immigrants OR the children of Illegals.

And we wonder why there is lack or water, jobs, and housing.
Get in legit or gtfo.....

Did you honestly think you could post a suggestion to commit mass murder and not be regarded as, at best, a sick joke ?

If you want to line up some people and shoot them, why not start with the people that make illegal immigration possible and profitable ?
Who controls our borders ?
A fruit farmer ?
A landscaping company ?
Who makes the laws that allow people to be paid for not working ?
Mexicans ?
I don't think so.
I think HB was deploying his usual chaff trying to split hairs about what welfare is but I have to really agree with him and suggest you do go play in traffic, high speed traffic.

And lest I be thought sane for agreeing with him, let me suggest that the Latino population invasion is what is going to prop up the United States for the next fifty years with any luck.

Other people have mentioned the piss-poor work ethic that many, but not all, natural born Americans have and I fully second the notion that I would hire a non-English speaking kid over a white kid from a good family with great grades and a winning smile any day.
At the very least, that immigrant, illegal or not, has done more work just to get into this country than the white kid has probably done all his life.

I would also point out, that unlike a growing percentage of "Americans", the Latino population tends to stay married to they baby momma and I am under the illusion that a strong family structure is key to a healthy society, but then again ..... I am radical ( fill in the blank ) so what do I know ?

How about a simple, realistic solution ?
Close the borders, totally, for about 5 years.
Everyone inside the borders becomes a citizen.
Then, once we actually have some idea of who is in the country, we can start letting people back in because immigration is the heart of this great country.
We get who knows how much more money in taxes to pay for services the illegals are already using and we extend the protections of citizenship to every person working in this country.
We are willing to extend those rights to people who have tried to kill us and will again when released but we can't extend them to people who simply want a better life ?
That is truly fucked-up.

BTW:

All of the Irish are now gone....oh wait Huh?

We are LEGION !

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_African_American_is_Irish&src=ansTT

**QuickLightning** · 10-24-09, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Sora

If i was the president of the united states. It would have been done long ago. :P

No it wouldn't have.

These people generally aren't thugs, Sora. There is a huge difference between robbery and moving over to a better country to provide for your family. This is like going back to the statements about rape and murder.

Jaywalking =/= murder. Yes, they are both breaking laws but to a VERY different degree.

It's absolutely disgusting and shameful how some of you people feel about your fellow man. Circumventing rules and regulations that are costly in both time and money for a better life for your family being punishable by death?! Thank god you are not and likely will never be in ANY position of power Sora. Seriously... if you think murder is the answer, seek professional help.

Want to know the drain on America's economy? It's not illegals... a good portion of it is just lazy American citizens who sit at home and eat up on our tax dollars.

**Thorsen** · 10-24-09, 03:43 PM

Ok Quick. I can see from your last post that you still don't get my point so I'll reiterate. But before I begin I'd just like to say. Sora you are one sick person. Round them up and KILL them? Really? Did Hitler give you that idea or what?

I wasn't trying to in any way say that immigrating to America illegally is as bad as murder. I was trying to say that if you think that the fact that Americans do things like Jaywalking makes it okay to break other laws, then to be consistent you can't pick and chose. Therefore it would mean that murdering would be okay too if you disagreed with anti murder laws.

I have a lot of respect for Mexican (Lets face it, we're mostly talking about Mexicans) immigrants. I respect their family values, I respect their work ethic, and I respect their devotion to providing for their families. This is why I support immigration reform. What I don't support is breaking laws that are still in effect. Its the same reason that even though I love guns and support concealed carry, that I don't carry a concealed firearm. I disagree with banning concealed carry, but I obey the law, even as I attempt to change it. That's my point, we can't say its okay to break the law, just because we disagree with it as of now. Instead, we have the unique and wonderful opportunity in America to change laws through voting, writing letters, forming rallies and even engaging in politics ourselves.

A final point. People need to stop saying illegals are "willing to work for less" or "have better work ethic." They aren't willing to work for less, they're forced to work for less. You don't think an immigrant would love to make forty bucks an hour at a union factory job? Of course they would. Stop trying to tempt people into accepting illegal immigration by saying that they make shit cheaper or they do jobs Americans won't do. How did we harvest shit before we had illegal immigrants? Americans did it.

Americans aren't a race, we aren't an indigenous people. We're a nation. We're made up of people from every corner of the world. Stop acting like Americans are a different species, incapable of hard work. These illegal immigrants come in all shapes and sizes, from many countries. Some are lazy, some are hard working, some turn to crime, some raise families. Just like the rest of us, Irish, Mexican, French, German whatever, when people immigrate here, they become Americans. And when the children of these illegal immigrants grow up and join the work force they won't be any different anymore. They'll be Americans too. So when you say "Americans" have bad work ethic, you're saying people have bad work ethic.
Its time to stop stereotyping people like that. Its time to stop saying Germans are the best engineers, and Japanese are so good with computers, and those Irish, boy they can hold their liquor.

We're all god damn motherfucking humans!

**QuickLightning** · 10-24-09, 03:55 PM

I get your point, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.

The immigrants come over knowing full well what to expect from their days of labor. They aren't forced to come over and work in those conditions for that pay... they choose to because it is better than what they get back in their home towns.

I think I'm going to let the subject rest with that though.

**CallousDisregard** · 10-24-09, 03:57 PM

I qualified my statement and used quotes around American because I am not talking about everyone.
But in my experience, the longer your family is in this country, the lazier it gets.
I don't work 1/2 as hard as my father did and his father had the 2-3 otro trabjo, albeit union.
I don't say it is an absolute by any means but I do believe the further you are from off the boat the less motivated you are and that crosses all color/ethnic barriers.
We are a lazy nation.

**Thorsen** · 10-24-09, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

I qualified my statement and used quotes around American because I am not talking about everyone.
But in my experience, the longer your family is in this country, the lazier it gets.
I don't work 1/2 as hard as my father did and his father had the 2-3 otro trabjo, albeit union.
I don't say it is an absolute by any means but I do believe the further you are from off the boat the less motivated you are and that crosses all color/ethnic barriers.
We are a lazy nation.

Well of course people in general don't work as "hard" as they did in previous generations. That's how technology works. The more advanced our technology the less we have to labor at things. People still work very long very tiring shifts these days, all the time. We're just moving into a new age where work means something different than it used to.

I agree with you Lightning that they know what they're getting into. I'm just trying to say that they don't do these low pay, hard work jobs because Mexicans are somehow genetically inclined to it. They do it because its a matter of survival for their families. So they are in a sense "forced" to work these jobs as a means of survival.

**jason_jinx** · 10-24-09, 04:30 PM

Everyone so far has posted some interesting info.

When it comes to Sora.........

I wish I could speak my mind to you but i would be site banned.

Go fly a kite.

**Sora** · 10-24-09, 05:00 PM

Well, Despite what anyone has to say, I have my opinion. What you think is wrong or not. Its my opinion that matters to me.

I stated my mind and got at the point I wanted. If we we're to take drastic actions like that, immigration would cease to exist for the most part.
I know it will never happen, And I wouldn't do it myself. It is a thought. You people take this stuff to serious.

**Mudstalker** · 10-24-09, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by 619summon

Originally Posted by QuickLightning

American Citizens won't work for 1/3 of minimum wage with no benefits in cash under the table for that work.

the workers in san diego get paid $20 an hour, and can go up very fast. they get a ride to work, most of them get lunch bought for them and then a ride home and a 6 pack of tall cans.

not bad.

both my neighbors own construction company's, and they will be the first people to tell you. the number one reason is

they don't give you shit about working, or give you a know it all, I don't need this shit attitude.

they pay/treat them the same as they word any contract labor American or Mexican.

"an American worker would rather sit home play video games and smoke pot, live on unemployment/disability then go stand out in from of home depot and try to get work."

~jimmy Valdez

American work ethic is sick. in America it don't matter how you get rich you can sell crap product or services, run a company in to the ground, but so long as the moneys in the bank your still called a success.

the problem is much deeper then just migrant workers, there is a fundamental mishappen in American ethics, and its stinking to high hell. IMHO on a personal level we all need to step back look at he big picture and realize we are not our own little kingdoms, not kings or queens. We teach our kids working at some places is is shameful. its better to be unemployed then to flip hamburgers.

we have unions that would take/ask sooo much form the company it works for, it cripples the company and in the end leads it to ruins. EI: VONS grocery CA

this kid on our street, just finished high school and his parents bought him a brand new lancer, but he refused to drive it. says d rather ride my skate then drive a fake EVO.

time to get back to basics, start crafting, start inventing in our garages. be proud of your work and stand behind what you do, dotn just take the money and run. turn off MTV and whoop you kids ass for acting a fool.

THIS

Originally Posted by CallousDisregard

BTW:

All of the Irish are now gone....oh wait Huh?

We are LEGION !

Only 100% true blood Irish may apply to the LEGION you speak of :P

/end thread

**GReYVee** · 10-24-09, 05:25 PM

My issue with illegal immigration really does not relate to these illegals stealing our 'shit jobs'. It is more about the fact an illegal is likely paying barely any taxes, but still in most cases receives the benefits of our government assistance. Even if indirectly via their naturally born citizen children. Maybe it is more difficult than I thought to be naturalized into this country -- but being part of running family of working middle class I'd love to see more of the money that my father / grandfather / and now myself are feeding into the system being spent to improve America / Americans lives.

I know people come here to America for a better life, and I really cannot blame them. This is a great, though corrupted, country. Anymore, the issue on illegal immigration is yet another political public spectacle that distracts us even further from the fact we are slowly becoming just another underdog. (This seems to have happened to every great nation in modern times). We really are headed towards being UK version 2.

And since I read another quote while posting this: Work ethics are certainly turning for the worse. Business ethics, small business practices, and the way so many people are exploited these days is disgusting. In some ways we ourselves are to blame for the fact so many illegals come over to work. They know there are employers who will hire them without social security because they can sverely reduce the pay and put that profit into their own pockets. Sure you dont get to write that off.. but than you dont have to insure them, or provide any benefits at all.

Makes me wonder how many work accidents that resulted in an illegals death, ended in the dumping of a body into some river that leads back to Mexico. (Seriously, and no offense intended)