House GOP pens 230-page health bill draft

**flame** · 11-09-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by flame

Originally Posted by jason_jinx

Originally Posted by hawgballs

The thing is, unlike mail service, where the govt is actually shipping the mail, the "public option" health plan doesn't run the hospitals. No, it works like an insurance plan. It is a payment system, and we all know too well how the private insurers route is going.

Not only that but flame has been lead to believe there will be government insurance only hospitals and doctors offices with lines down the street. Also everyone will be forced to choose this plan.....

:1

no, I am bothered by the fact that I will be paying for it

You'll be paying for it, how?

Well, since the country is in debt... the only place this money can come from is the tax payer. I pay taxes, so yeah I believe I will be paying for it.

I have no problem with my for profit health insurance. You do realize that insurance companies fund reasearch that improves our medical system.

Automotive insurance companies have led us to drive safer cars, and more theft resistant.
Property insurance companies have led to safer construction, safer appliances, and fund fire department advances.
Health insurnance companies fund cancer research, diabetes research, and countless other diseases. We would not be where we are today in our medical advances if it weren't for the funding they provide. Does it help their bottom line yes, but our quality of life benefits as well.

**triggerhappy2005** · 11-09-09, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by flame

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by flame

Originally Posted by jason_jinx

Originally Posted by hawgballs

The thing is, unlike mail service, where the govt is actually shipping the mail, the "public option" health plan doesn't run the hospitals. No, it works like an insurance plan. It is a payment system, and we all know too well how the private insurers route is going.

Not only that but flame has been lead to believe there will be government insurance only hospitals and doctors offices with lines down the street. Also everyone will be forced to choose this plan.....

:1

no, I am bothered by the fact that I will be paying for it

You'll be paying for it, how?

Well, since the country is in debt... the only place this money can come from is the tax payer. I pay taxes, so yeah I believe I will be paying for it.

I have no problem with my for profit health insurance. You do realize that insurance companies fund reasearch that improves our medical system.

Automotive insurance companies have led us to drive safer cars, and more theft resistant.
Property insurance companies have led to safer construction, safer appliances, and fund fire department advances.
Health insurnance companies fund cancer research, diabetes research, and countless other diseases. We would not be where we are today in our medical advances if it weren't for the funding they provide. Does it help their bottom line yes, but our quality of life benefits as well.

Are you funded by the health care industry because all you're saying is blather. We are the only industrialized country to not have universal health care for its citizens. This is because we take a capitalistic approach to something that should be socialistic. Just like with our Police and Fire Dept. The health insurance companies ARE the problem. They need to be regulated and controlled. Their profit should come second to the needs of the people. Just like in Canada and Europe.

Go walk down the street of any Western European country and it's painfully obvious that they are healthier than us Americans. Whenever I go back to the U.S. I can't get over how many fat, tore up looking people I see. Just tired, living on the edge types of people. For many it's just a shitty existence when you make $9 an hour with no health care. Greatest nation on Earth? Clueless.

As far as you paying for it, who said you're taxes are going up? Do you make more than $250k per year. If not, no skin off your back. Just off mine b/c i will pay more in taxes. I have no problem with this b/c I understand there are some things more important than money...like health care.

**BruceBloodMaster** · 11-09-09, 03:25 PM

Ummm maybe I heard it wrong on the Lehrer Report but I thought he said that if you don't "participate" you will be fined up to $250,000.00 and spend 5 years in Jail !

**triggerhappy2005** · 11-09-09, 03:56 PM

C'mon Bruce, you're a smart guy. What's the penalty for jay walking? Up to $1000 and/or 6 months in jail. What you're saying is fear mongering and frankly just wastes time.

It's simple, if you can afford insurance then you should buy it just like car insurance. If you can't them the government is going to step in and help. This is just one aspect of the health care reform bill be discussed.

**Bubbasam** · 11-09-09, 05:08 PM

[/quote]
As far as you paying for it, who said you're taxes are going up? Do you make more than $250k per year. If not, no skin off your back. Just off mine b/c i will pay more in taxes. I have no problem with this b/c I understand there are some things more important than money...like health care.
[/quote]
I own 4 businesses with over 100 employees and right now I only provide health insurance for salaried employees. I offer it to my hourly employees if they pay for it, but in the 21 years of owning my businesses not one has wanted the insurance. I know many other business people who are more than scared of the 8% of gross wages tax on employers that choose not to cover all of their employees. We know that covering them at our expense is the other option, but a lot of these business people (like myself) are down in sales over the last 9-12 months,and close to the edge of profitability. If this bill passes as it is, I WILL go out of business. I also know for a fact that at least 6 other close friends who own their own business will have to do the same. They don't have as many employees as I do, but I would be guessing 350 or so people would be without a job because of this bill. So to say that some things are more important than money is really only pertinent in your situation. In my situation it's matter of life or death for my businesses.

**triggerhappy2005** · 11-09-09, 05:27 PM

And that is why we need health care reform Bubba. We need to first make insurance mandatory like in Europe (trust me when I say that when you're hourly employees have insurance as a right they will never want to go back, no more waiting 6 hours in an emergency room to get a flu shot). We need to reign in the greed and power that these insurance companies have and put the people first. These companies don't produce a product or service, they simply pool money together and then take a fat cut for doing nothing.

Insuring everyone will bring costs down just like in Europe. It will create a healthier society which in turn will create even more cost savings and most importantly it will socialize a part of our society that should be kept as far away from capitalism as possible. Your business will survive but you might make a smidgen less profit. For the well being of your employees, I'm sure that's what you want.

**BruceBloodMaster** · 11-09-09, 05:38 PM

Trigger what I am saying is that if you don't play ball they Fine you ........... Great selling point for Democracy ! If thats the kind of democracy we are heading for then I have my gun in hand.

**~~hawgballs~~** · 11-09-09, 05:40 PM

If you don't play ball and end up in the hospital, the tax payer pays, more than what it costs had they been insured. So why not just collect that money up front?

**Thorsen** · 11-09-09, 05:40 PM

I would be a lot happier if my taxes went up the same as the guy making 250k +. As it stands now it does lean towards a redistribution of wealth scenario, through taxes. But I suppose that gets into taxes which is a discussion for another thread.

As far as the health of Americans goes its a very difficult area to make accurate correlations. Mortality rates are higher in the U.S. than many European countries this is true. However, this does not give us a positive correlation to universal health care. There are many factors to weigh, including homicide and suicide rates, motor vehicle accidents, obesity (As you mentioned), poor diet, unsanitary conditions, starvation, exposure to toxic materials, and countless others. It would be very, very difficult to nail down mortality rates to one basic contributor. If America had the best health care on Earth, but for some reason had a homicide rate twenty times that of the next highest country, our mortality rate would express this.

Now, I'm not saying our current system is good. I'm also not saying I like these bills, nor that they appear to be a solution. Even if someone convinced me that socialized health care made sense (which is entirely possible). I would still not support the federal government handling it. It should be removed to the state level.

**Red_Lizard2** · 11-09-09, 07:08 PM

correct me if i'm wrong, but don't alot of european countries also use preventative medicine. I.E. in the weight thing, here (unless you see a private doctor) they'll just treat what health problems pop-up from a person being fat. Whereas preventative basically says, "Put down the Big Mac, and go take a walk fatty."

They still treat it all that jazz if need be, but try to instill ideas that will keep you from having problems in the first place.