Thread: VS mode locked to normal

Originally Posted by Kaizoku

"You don't see people playing different games on EXACTLY the same map. You see people playing EXACTLY the same game on different maps. They are not the same thing. You can't apply the same logic to them."

^This^ doesn't follow the logic I was referring to, I'll explain it.

You assumed locking difficulty to normal will make people better at normal, and provide a better game at the sacrifice of difficulty options.

I assumed locking the map to one map will make people better at that map, and provide a better game at the sacrifice of map options.

Explain to me how that is not the same logic, or you could stop posting like you said. Either way I really don't feel you've disproven my analogy in the least.

No, figure it out yourself.

I'm ignoring you in this thread also, until the point you decided to join the discussion as a contributing member of this forum again. I'm also going to assume you can't refute me here, and my analogy is sound until properly disproven.

Trying mah best Pingwin, I'm sure when other people post again it'll go back to a useful discussion.

Originally Posted by Metall_pingwin

Liq3, your behaviour is absolutely outrageous. If you are not willing to engage in a discussion, please do not instigate one, or at least have the balls to admit lack of argument. For what it's worth, you might as well be flipping off the entire thread with comments like these.

Guys, please try not to turn this into a flame-fest. I wouldn't like to make this thread the first one I lock.

Lately one of the forums I frequent turned into argument fest full of logical fallacies. I guess I'm not over how annoying and enraging logical fallacies can be. I'm trying my best to avoid flaming, but when people don't even bother thinking before they post, it drives me nuts.

I really wish I could stop posting in this thread. :/

"You don't see people playing different games on EXACTLY the same map. You see people playing EXACTLY the same game on different maps. They are not the same thing. You can't apply the same logic to them."

^This^ doesn't follow the logic I was referring to, I'll explain it.

You assumed locking difficulty to normal will make people better at normal, and provide a better game at the sacrifice of difficulty options.

I assumed locking the map to one map will make people better at that map, and provide a better game at the sacrifice of map options.

Explain to me how that is not the same logic, or you could stop posting like you said. Either way I really don't feel you've disproven my analogy in the least.

This is a Red Herring. It completely ignores what I was originally arguing. I said that it'd split the community. The problem with this, is you will get infected teams who can't beat normal survivor players, and normal infected teams getting bored with advanced because it's too easy. This will likely result in the community splitting, one half playing normal, the other half playing advanced. This is a horrible outcome.

Having different maps won't result in such a split, as proven by the countless games before this one.

And this "I said that it'd split the community. The problem with this, is you will get infected teams who can't beat normal survivor players, and normal infected teams getting bored with advanced because it's too easy." Makes 3 huge assumptions that I didn't accept in the first place.

1. It would split the community.

It wouldn't, even when advanced was around, me and my friends played both difficulties, as I am sure most other people did. Also, even if you accept this is true, the community is huge and can afford a split since more people will play (i.e. not quit) if all difficulties are restored.

2. You will get infected teams who can't beat normal survivor players

This premise assumes that normal is the best mode to begin with, which has yet to be proven, if it's even possible to do so. Accepting that assumption, what proof do you have that infected players would not get better at playing the infected on Advanced at the same rate as Normal? You're assuming making a game harder on the infected means people will get better faster, which is not true. What's to say people will play less when faced with more difficulty, or explore less options of attack and tactics out of neccessity to keep to the same plan to harass the survivors as best they already know how? You provided no backup for this assumption at all.

3. Infected teams getting bored with advanced because it's too easy.

This assumes Advanced is NOT the best (most balanced) mode to play on, which has yet to be proven, if indeed it can be proven. Give this assumption is true, you're assuming people who have an easier time of things learn a game at a slower rate. Gaming skill is not a muscle, it will not definitely increase if worked at a higher level, and such an exercise can create detrimental habits. Again, you've provided no backup here.

Having different difficulties won't result in such a split, as proven by the countless games before this one. Let people choose which one they think is the best, and wait for a majority precedent to be established before removing options all together.

Non-confusion version, at least advanced difficulty should be selectable in the lobby menu. Arguments against it are presumptive, constricting.

Originally Posted by -RaYne-

All you did was mention how each special infected is standing alone. This isn't meant to be a lone wolf kind of game, you have to work together. Yes, it's true that alone, the infected are weak, but when they work together a well placed ambush will kill any team of survivors.

Your being biased by saying the infected suck because of this and that, you fail to mention how their abilities compliment eachother. Which is why teamwork is so important.

Yes, the boomer does have shit health and is easy to spot and hear. He isn't meant to stay alive long, hes kind of like a suicide bomber, but with an effect that blinds the enemy team for around 5 seconds. If he does his job, you can disable another 2 in less than 3 seconds if you have a smoker and hunter waiting close by. That leaves 1 person to fight a horde and defend 3 teammates. By the time he's done with the horde, the boomer can re spawn and finish him off if he re spawns as a hunter or smoker. Even if he isn;t finished off, his other team mates have taken so much damage that you can finish them off with just 1 more ambush.

They are standing alone because in order for this Super special awesome combo of attacks you need 1 of the Special infected to create the panic mode for the survivors.


So for ALL of the infected to be effective, the boomer MUST cover all 4, or they have to be separated long enough to have the smoker and hunter make a coordinated prong attack.

If the boomer misses even one, he can see clearly and cover for the rest of his team pretty easy, even if the smoker has a chance to grab him. Even then, a person can be coated by bile only so many times before becoming "immune" to the blindness effect.

What i mean by this "Immunity" is that while they cannot see, they know enough about their environment and what they are fighting to continue to fight while being nearly blind. This is exactly what happens in 'The Hidden'.

(In case you don't know, The Hidden is 1 player vs up to like 6 other players. New players can't see the hidden, while more experienced players can easily make out the hidden from like a mile away. The game also has a weapon called the Less Lethal Launcher that causes a blur effect effectively blinding the victim. However players who have been hit by this oftenly enough know how to see through the effect.)

This is also what happens with spies in TF2. While they can make a great coordinated attack, the often emit an "aura" of spyness. Which causes me to shoot them dead.




In any case, the more you have to rely on a hundred different parts working in a machine at any given moment, the more chances you have for a Pc Load Letter error.