Thread: Versus is still bullshit

The game is now geared towards "Can you finish?" Rather then "How hard can you RAPE that other team!" All those health kits are needed by the survivors against a decent infected team.

This doesn't make sense. You're saying that the game is now "can you finish?", yet the Director should continue spawning random medkits anyway?

If it's really going to be about "can you finish?" and not seeing who can make it to the safe room faster, wouldn't it make more sense to remove the random medkit spawns so that by halfway through the map, the survivors are running primarily on temporary health through incap pickups, pills, and shots?

I'm trying to illustrate the point that, even with a very good team playing as infected, it's ludicrously easy for the survivors to get to the safe room. The difference in damage done was almost six times what my team did... and yet we all made it to the saferoom anyway, even with a potential griefer on our team (I'm still not sure if he was trying to grief or just thought the defib would be more useful since he didn't say anything.) What do you think it would have been like if my team was as skilled as their team? Both teams still would have made it, the damage difference would have been much less, and their team would still only get 25 points. I'm just wondering why it's considered fair for one team to just completely mop the floor with the other team and still only get such a miniscule award for it.

The game itself was a wash for us, since apparently our team had replaced all of its members like twice before I joined and managed to get the others to stick around (besides the clanwhore who switched teams when one of the SVs had to leave.) Apparently TP1, they barely got out of the safe room door before getting mauled (my team had like, what, 130 points going into TP2 versus their 400 or 500 or something), so it wasn't about who was winning - we'd have lost even if we'd all started together. It just seems ridiculous that a team that is clearly better might only win by 100-125 points because they aren't able to stop the survivors with the director shitting medkits everywhere (there were EIGHT medkits in TP2, and only two of them were static spawns, not counting the four in the starting safe room.)

Again, I'm saying that it's too easy for survivors to reach the safe room once they get T2's - it's possible that might not be true at higher skill levels, but if that's true... why does FrusMod (a mod that's extremely popular on competitive circuits) generally restrict medkits and T2's so much? Yeah, there are ways around T2's for the infected, but you can't tell me that it doesn't get a lot damn harder for infected once all of the SVs are running around with ARs and autoshotties.

But, don't you think it's harder to survive then it was in L4D1?

But, don't you think it's harder to survive then it was in L4D1?

It is, but if Versus is designed to be about how far the survivors can get rather than who can do more damage as infected, why does the director throw medkits everywhere, and why don't the infected see an increase in power (or reduction of spawn timers) when the survivors see an increase in power via T2's?

If a well-coordinated infected team can't manage to kill even one survivor against a moderately-coordinated survivor team, why would they fare better if they were fighting an equivalently skilled/coordinated team?

actually its mostly random, one round there may be 8 medkits, another only 2 (outside the safe-room) as anywhere that spawns items (its possible weapon spawns area as well) are set up that they can spawn pretty much anything.

actually its mostly random, one round there may be 8 medkits, another only 2 (outside the safe-room) as anywhere that spawns items (its possible weapon spawns area as well) are set up that they can spawn pretty much anything.

Yes. But why should medkits even be on the random item list?

Pills or a shot aren't a big deal because it's temporary health and doesn't reset the incap counter - so you can stall until the temp health runs out (especially now that damage taken comes out of your permanent health first), and if they were already black and white... they die next time they go down.

With a medkit, they not only get the majority of their health back, but that health is permanent, and the incap counter gets reset - so if you managed to get one dude down to B&W and another almost there... and they happen to find two randomly placed medkits... all of the effort that went into trying to whittle those two down is erased and you have to start all over again. Understand where I'm coming from here?

Valve's in an odd place with their apparent stance on versus. If they say it should be a contest about which survivor team can get farther before inevitably getting killed (and that's what it seems to be about, given the current scoring system), then why are medkits allowed to spawn randomly, why are there so few tanks (outside of the finale, I usually see one or two tanks across an entire campaign), and why don't the Infected receive some kind of boost when the Survivors get their tier 2 weapons? If it's about seeing who can make it to the safe room in the best condition, why don't players receive a bonus for making it to the finish line with a medkit on their back and pills on their belt?

I haven't played in a week but I was already seeing the signs that VS is going the same way as it did in L4D1. However, I do not think drastic changes are needed to the SI, only to the original infected, ESPECIALLY the Tank. Hunter needs more health, Smoker needs more damage, Tank needs more speed and maybe more damage per hit. I'm not talking WHOAZORS FIFTY DAMAGE PER TANK HIT or Expert-level hunter/smoker damage, I'm increases of 3-5HP per hit for the hunter/smoker and maybe 5-10 for the Tank. Tank needs to run faster than yellows, definitely, and I honestly think he should run faster than green SVs. Boomers I think should be able to fire on the move and that's it. The crucial microsecond it takes to stand completely still in range of survivors and click the mouse often results in death and terrible boom hit detection.

However, I think the biggest changes to VS need to come for the Director. As Pizzashark says, he shits medikits like every level's a fucking hospital. He needs to limit medical drops to pills and adrenaline, and even with those drops should be decreased. Grenades get pretty ridiculous in their spam-drops as well. Personally, I think drops throughout a full-length level should be 2 medikits, less than 8 pills/adrenaline, and 10/12 or less grenades. Especially when T2's appear. Boomer hordes, already less effective with T2's, are immediately nerfed by a pipe bomb, and when a SV team has been given a pipe bomb every ten feet it gets pretty fucking frustrating for a boomer player who dies from one shot and can't even boom without sitting in the open for five seconds.

I think Pizza just has issues with getting a team that has any idea how to use SI.

Yes... Medkits can change a winning round into a losing one real quick and the parish 2 is a prime example of it. There is always two kits before going under the freeway before the ceda trailer... And sometimes there are a ton of them. But that just means you have to do more damage than they did (or take less damage than they did however you want to look at it) and you get the bonus points.

It's harder in this game to coordinate SI attacks and even now, good players are still trying to figure out how to coordinate some of these attacks. Any time you see your team have a smoker, boomer, hunter, jockey single attack a group of survivors... Your team is doing it wrong. Period. And your team just failed. That 30-60 seconds that player just used spawning in and attacking and having to respawn again (and possibly screwed up other members' spawns/attacks) was WASTED. Chances are real damn good that 10% of the map gets covered by the survivors because that person doesn't "get it".

Everyone does it. I do it. And I'm betting anything and everything that you do it. Wasted attacks. A well coordinated attack by SI regardless of what weapons the survivors have can DEVASTATE their health. Picking away at them piecemeal has it's place... Sometimes you want to do that. But doing it against a full health team is wasting time, attacks, and potential damage. The only two SI that can get away with a single attack without totally screwing up the rest of their team are the spitter and the charger. The charger can do massive amounts of damage if he can get a scattering ram or carry a survivor a long ways away. The spitter can spit and get away before the pool even hits the survivors, so she has repeat damage potential in many cases. In fact, MOST of the time you SHOULD be hitting more than once with the same spitter. Getting your spitter killed immediately means you aren't doing it right.

I don't care how good the survivors are. A GOOD SI team working together, coordinating GOOD attacks, and knowing GOOD spots to execute those attacks WILL take out a survivor team a majority of the time.

Frankly... my view is that using something like frusmod doesn't make you better, or the game better... It just means you don't really know what you are doing in the basic game to begin with.