Thread: REAL DEAL

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

if such was true, then the SI's would be pointless in coop. You'd be able to breeze through every level, without issue.

last night, we spent 3 hours on the FIRST LEVEL of carnival. Jockeys and tanks and smokers and boomers, combined with EXPERT level hordes, and not some pansy non-issue easy health rated hordes of vs.

The tank hits you in vs...you get thrown across the room. The tank hits you in coop expert, and you die. The hunter pounces you for more than a second, and you're grounded. 2 or 3 seconds, and you're dead. A boomer gets you alone and you get horded....and you're dead.

How many times you not make it past the frst level in vs? How many times the entire party simply killed? Is that par for the course? Is that how it always goes?

Because that's how it goes in expert coop.

First level of Carnival is pretty easy if you keep moving instead of spending 20 minutes hunting for a bile jar. Jockeys and Chargers are the worst offenders of the SI team, because Jockeys like to get in those 20 damage scratches while being knocked back, and a Charger and just merrily run around and smack people for 10 damage apiece because you can't punch them. Even then, they tend to give themselves away by attacking in the open - count how many SIs you encounter in an average level, and then keep track of how many of those SIs did ANY damage, let alone do something devastating like take someone from green to incap. I'd be surprised if even ten percent of total SI spawns (not counting tanks) do more than ~10 damage in a given life, most doing none at all. Witches can be skipped or crowned, the AI is terrible for the common SI's, and tanks are only threatening if you're in a situation where you can't simply light it and run.

I played Dead Center with you, and you insisted on spending way too much time hunting for items and in general wasting time, particularly in regards to bile jars. Dead Center has more bile jars per map than any of the other campaigns, and there were very few situations that warranted us carrying one the entire damn campaign instead of using it, picking up a pipe or molly, and finding another bile jar later on. Hell, bile jars were EVERYWHERE in the finale. The director spawns hordes largely in response to your speed - if you're moving fast (i.e. rushing), you won't get too many hordes. If you're spending 2 minutes hunting for pills and pipes and crap every 50 feet, you're gonna get hordes constantly, and there's a damn good chance that you'll lose more than the 50 health those pills were worth if you get a horde in a bad area.

and for the record, last night, in our 3-hour dead end game of carnival, it was me, bunni, burn, and pizza shark.

Wasn't me. I breezed through expert Dark Carnival with some buddies a couple weeks ago.

While the AI tries to coordinate attacks, a good human team does a better job.

The AI does not try to "coordinate attacks", the AI just spawns at the same time and randomly tries to attack the players. The AI does not do anything sneaky or unsuspected, ever - it basically consists of "spawn in legal area, move to survivors, and attack when in range." Boomers don't hold their spawns to avoid being spotted, Spitters don't spit ahead of the Survivors to buy more time for teammates, Hunters NEVER get any bonus damage on their pounces and typically jump right at peoples faces (making them easy to dead stop), Chargers don't hold their spawn to be a complete surprise or go after death charges, Smokers don't go after death pulls, and Jockeys just randomly run at people and try to hump them - ironically Jockeys go from being one of the weakest all-around SIs to being one of the strongest all-around SIs in Expert simply because of their massive swipe damage in Expert. Tanks are spawned well in advance, and their grunting and groaning is generally a very good tip-off to have that molly ready and to have your backtrail clear so you can run while it burns. Witches are... witches. Useless and pointless 98% of the time, and game-ending that other 2% of the time.

There is no coordination on the SI "team" in Expert; if it looks like they're coordinating, it's just because they all spawned at the same time and happened to get in range at about the same time. You'll never see them working together like players will in Versus. In Expert, the hordes are the threat; in Versus, the SI are the threat.

Originally Posted by DOMINATOR

in terms of team/individual skill the vs player will be better at the game.

if "vs" is "the game".

apples and oranges. I can go to vs and not be a liability, though. VS junkies....I don't even bother to invite with me to play. They do crazy stuff like throw bile when hordes come, not search for pills, paddles, and gas cans, and stand in the open like crazy people that want to die.

Like zombie land. vs players haven't watched zombie land, and they don't know the rules.

Originally Posted by FragRaptor

Do not try to say that you are better than me at co-op, because I know you are lying and I have the data that shows it, your esteemed achievements. I really don't care who's better than who, I just want to play with you without having to play for 6 hours strait until you have to leave because your wife is coming home and then beat the level when you leave. Because it has always worked out that way when we got the team full again.

sure. then next time I invite you, how about you man up and show me what you got. Impress me.

You won't, because you can't.

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

Wasn't me. I breezed through expert Dark Carnival with some buddies a couple weeks ago.

which means your ONLY expert finishes were with me, and your "buddies a couple weeks ago". And I'd likely say that you earned your expert realism badge with me, then, since I sincerely doubt you completed carnival on realism.

I played with you. your the guy that said "oh, a horde, let's throw the bile", and even then said "bile's not worth as much as a pipe bomb".

If you knew what you were doing, then you'll have your expert badge before I do. Stay in VS if you're going to just make up skills.

We lucked out on the finale because we were able to run to the bile, and get it done. We only won the finale in dead center because I lucked out and killed a charger, a jockey, and a smoker, all with 10 seconds of one another, while throwing down the last 2 gas cans you guys on the floor were calling floor. I was alone, I was busy carrying things, and I got LUCKY on the jockey and smoker, plain and simple. The smoker should have had me, but he missed. And it's not because I heard him coming. Nor the charger. Nor the jockey.

If we had walked into the finale all carrying, or having at least 2 biles....it would have been a non issue, easy pass from the first try. Instead.....we did the finale 10 times.

See the difference between "the game" for those who picked it up and play vs compared to those who play expert coop. Night and day.

"there's bile everywhere". Right....that's why it took us 2 hours to beat the mall. Because we were bileless, or 1 bile short when it came time to break the glass.

cutting corners works in vs. Criticizng taking time to scavenge stuff....to slow down and get the pills and the shots, and most especially the pipes and bile......

that's just vs talking.

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

There is no coordination on the SI "team" in Expert; if it looks like they're coordinating, it's just because they all spawned at the same time and happened to get in range at about the same time. You'll never see them working together like players will in Versus. In Expert, the hordes are the threat; in Versus, the SI are the threat.

yawn.

I don't fear a tank that can't kill me without hitting me 5 times. And I certainly am not afraid of a hunter that doesn't kill me in 2 or 3 swipes.

I don't fear hordes in coop. I fear jockeys. And hunters.

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

There is no coordination on the SI "team" in Expert; if it looks like they're coordinating, it's just because they all spawned at the same time and happened to get in range at about the same time. You'll never see them working together like players will in Versus. In Expert, the hordes are the threat; in Versus, the SI are the threat.

yawn.

I don't fear a tank that can't kill me without hitting me 5 times. And I certainly am not afraid of a hunter that doesn't kill me in 2 or 3 swipes.

I don't fear hordes in coop. I fear jockeys. And hunters.

And I don't fear co-op SI when you play it right.

Originally Posted by ¤[BlitzKrieg

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This makes me want to play co-op now, just to see how a complete vs boy can do.

friend me up, and don't wuss out when I invite you.