Thread: Even teams up during a match?

This isn't a complaint thread. I just want this cleared up for future reference.

So, during a match one team is getting obliterated or it is obvious a team is going to be, what should we do?

A. Even teams up
B. Play on
C. Lobby creator/leader decides


Coming from CSS where evening teams up is a pretty common occurrence, I was under the impression that this game would fall under the same rule. Having heard all three options being argued during a match I'd like to settle it here with a simple vote.

My personal opinion is to try to make the teams even. But it is more ambiguous than that. You could spend all day trying to even teams up so I would suggest switching only one player and if that doesn't work - oh well, continue on. Also, sometimes asskickings' aren't apparent until the 3rd or 4th map - if that is the case you leave teams be and finish out.

My opinions
- Even teams up
- One switch per match
- Only switch before or after the 1st or 2nd map

Every scenario is different so micromanaging that part of team balance is a bit much. Each team usually forms a captain in one way or another. I would say its up to them.

I say take your asswhuppin like a man and play on. Changing out one person on a team in CSS isn't the same as switching out one in L4D. You are changing the ENTIRE DYNAMIC of a team with one person switch. If you are going to switch someone out, do it before the game ever starts... Map 1. Before ready-up. After that, all bets are off. Get your ass in there and buckle down.

I *REALLY* despise swapping players around once a game is started. If I want a tie game every time I play I'll play tic-tac-toe. Winning or losing is all the same to me as long as I'm with the three people I started with. The team dynamic and whatever is failing about it can be FIXED. But I'm not going to say "ok. we suck too hard. Can we have one of your people instead?" Baloney. If it's not working, fix it. Ninety percent of everyone's problem is not getting SI off of each other fast enough. THAT'S FIXABLE. So stop watching the pretty scenery and DO IT. You'll turn the game around just like that. I jumped a team's ass about that on Dark Carny map 3 once and that was all it took. We won the game having been down by 500+ points the first two maps.

That said... In EXTREME circumstances, I can see a swap being worth it. Extra long map (carny, parish)... ridiculously overmatched team getting killed right out the door... We had it happen last week. I swapped Greeny for myself because we were destroying them. FIRST time someone on our team called for it. I think "no way" came outta my mouth. Then the next map they also asked... so we did it. I didn't LIKE it, but there was an obvious EXTREME difference in skill between the two teams so we made the switch.

I think it needs to be an EXTREME circumstance, otherwise... Hell no.

I actually think that it's part of the admins' job to make sure the game is at least fairly balanced. At the very least they should be asking the overmatched team if they feel a switch is necessary. Some will say no, some will say yes. But the same with any of our games, any admin in a game should be looking at balance.

That being said, you should probably try to accomplish it with only one switch, not be flip flopping players the whole game.

Also, in a lobby with team captains (who take turns picking players), if there's a huge imbalance, well.. the captain should have picked a better team.

I dislike swapping because when you swap for an even team, then nobody really gets anything out of the experience. Sure, they end up having a bit more fun and they aren't raging at eachother the whole game or some other stupid thing, but what about the next time? You didn't learn anything from the last time you lost because you switched teams up and made a better person practically carry you. This screws you over anytime that person isn't with you. Learn from your beatings. WHY is your team losing so badly? WHAT can your team do different? HOW can your team do it? Get together with your team and be a team. Complaining will get you nowhere, and having a skilled player on your team will have the same effect. You learn nothing and get nothing done.

On another side, the team that is wiping the other should also take it as a learning experience instead of just a free win stroll through the park la-di-daa experience. WHY are THEY losing so badly? WHAT can THEY do different? HOW can THEY do it? Just as well as WHY are we doing well? WHAT are we doing well? HOW can we continue doing it? Every single game should be a learning experience. Every. Single. Game.

play on! shit happens. you win some you lose some. man up. etc.

I am absolutely 100% against team "balancing" mid round in L4D2. When you join a lobby, you should always ask if it's random or captains. If it's random and you're afraid of being on a losing team, you should form/join another lobby. When a lobby randoms they are basically making an unstated pact that "We're gonna take what luck gives us." It's a gamble. Sometimes you get four Aces, other times you get two jokers, one rule card and a used napkin, but you've all essentially agreed before hand that you'll take the hand you were dealt and do your best with it.

What's the point of playing a game if there's a constant desire to average skill out to absolute balance? The adventure of competition is trying to do well with different groups of people.

And yeah, sometimes you lose, a LOT of times you lose (I don't mean YOU specifically Train, I mean people in general including myself). About half the time for most people. Losing sucks, and we all hate to lose, but you just have to take the wins with the losses, and remember that every time you're being miserable losing, someone else is having a blast. So take one for the team, try your best and let the team with superior communication, teamplay, and skill enjoy themselves as they should.

And for god's sake stop giving up so fast. So many teams will have one bad turn of luck, and spend the rest of the game just going through the motions. Like Blitz said, try something new, work on unique strategies, take the opportunity to teach newer teammates, work on communication and coverage. Be productive, be creative and stop moping around stewing in your supposed imminent defeat.

And my final reasoning to why I don't approve of mid round team balancing is it doesn't work! Like Kanati mentioned, switching a person in l4d2 is like switching a full quarter of a CS:S or TF2 team, usually the most skilled quarter too. Imagine switching the top 4 players on CT to a losing T team mid round, usually replacing them with the bottom 4 T's. Disaster waiting to happen.

Now realize that in a four man team, that one person you switched can have a DRAMATIC effect on the dynamics on his team or the other team, to the point that he may make the losing team lose harder, or she may imbalance the game the other way, or who knows? The teams are too small to accurately balance mid round.

It is for these reasons I always support the maintaining of original teams throughout a VS match.

Originally Posted by nihilanth311

play on! shit happens. you win some you lose some. man up. etc.

I like it! Really the only time I've seen it is if there are some new guys in the game. You cant gauge how well someone is going to pick up on the game, so its good to switch people around to keep those 'teaching' games balanced.

I am on both sides of the fence for this situation. The fact that there have been an influx of new lfd2 players brings about the opportunity for a very uneven match. I have joined many lobbies where there are 3 new players, 1 average player, and 4 veterans. The 3 new players and 1 average player gets put on a team and the 4 veterans obliterate us. Now don't get me wrong I love learning through defeat; it's true, it makes you a better player. But when you have all these new players coming into the game and on the other side a bunch of veterans, who are already set in their ways, there are times when a team switch in necessary.

You say that the team getting murdered should just take it and learn from the beating, but how are they supposed to learn while playing as Survivors? There was a game that I was playing in against Thorsen and 3 other really good players and I don't think we made it half way through a round ever. There were rounds where we were killed 20 seconds after leaving the safe room. How are new players supposed to learn anything from that. Stick together more? Ummm sometimes that doesn't work with you veterans. I don't think you guys realize how good you are compared to people who just started playing. Not every player adapts to certain video games at a high rate. Some take longer than others and it may be hard to learn when they are playing an amazingly good team. In those cases, switch the teams up. Make sure the newbies last longer than 20 seconds.

And an other thing, some players are just not that great at video games in general. Telling them to deal with the beating and get better is like telling a 12 year old that while playing with a bunch of 20 year olds in a game of basketball. Once again I'm not a newbie anymore nor am I a veteran, but I have a good enough grasp of this game to take my beatings like a man and deal with it. But if I'm playing with 3 other players who are lesser skill than me (me being average at most), against 4 veterans, I would hope that you could switch one of your players. Or is the game actually fun when you get to the safe room all 4 maps and beat the other team by 1500 points.

I thought we play video games for competition, not slaughtering the weak. I know that when I become a "veteran" down the road I will be the first one to say, those guys need some help. Why not make it a close game? That means more energy, more excitement. I would get bored running over the new players. And lastly this is TeamPlayerGaming. I don't care what anyone says about, "oh this isn't CSS or TF2", all games supported by TPG share the same themes. I've never heard more, "deal with it", "take your beating like a man", "stop crying and play" in any other game than in LFD2. I thought this community was supposed to be supportive of their members not constantly negative and degrading. A new player comes into CSS and all you hear is, "oh follow us, just keep with us, you'll get the hang of things" in lfd2 I hear, "I'm sick of babysitting the new players". I'm pretty sure sportsmanship applies to this game too.

Now I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I was simply stating my opinion. I love this lfd2 community and it has been the most fun that I've had in awhile, but if I just sit hear and not voice my opinion than I am not doing my job as a player/member of this community. I hope you understand.