Second teams' Tank Spawn Distance Variation

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I guess my point is that while there is variation it is random, and not guaranteed to favor one team or the other. Whereas if you make is the same you for sure give an advantage to the second team as they know exactly where the tank will be while still in the confines of the safe room.

What you're missing though, is that the team who's about to be SI also know that there's a tank, and exactly where it will spawn. Means they can plan for a hit that will do quite a bit of damage to the SV while they're likely trying to backtrack to get to a more defensible area. Gives both teams the advantage of knowing it's coming, and when.

And Max, I admit I don't know a whole lot about confogl, but messing with the scoring just isn't something I think needs to be done, which I'm pretty certain confogl does (adding in health bonus').

**maximusboomus** · 06-13-11, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

What you're missing though, is that the team who's about to be SI also know that there's a tank, and exactly where it will spawn. Means they can plan for a hit that will do quite a bit of damage to the SV while they're likely trying to backtrack to get to a more defensible area. Gives both teams the advantage of knowing it's coming, and when.

And Max, I admit I don't know a whole lot about confogl, but messing with the scoring just isn't something I think needs to be done, which I'm pretty certain confogl does (adding in health bonus').

Nah confogl is awesome comp style, exactly same spawn locations, only tier 2s 1 rifle, no health packs only pills, its wonderful, but for everyday gaming a little restricted.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

For the record, BUNNI, I am not arguing either way in regards to changes. My only argument is that having one team know exactly where a tank will spawn before the round starts, and one team that has no clue until the event triggers is also not "fair".

Oh, and your assumption also holds no water because Kanati and I combined have more time in game than you and just about anybody other than the top 10 in play time. =P

Ummm, Civil....you've got 4.5 hours in L4D2 according to Steam....I had more than that in-game yesterday alone

And Kanati just doesn't like change. That's one of the problems with being older then dirt, change is scary.

**CivilWars** · 06-13-11, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

What you're missing though, is that the team who's about to be SI also know that there's a tank, and exactly where it will spawn. Means they can plan for a hit that will do quite a bit of damage to the SV while they're likely trying to backtrack to get to a more defensible area. Gives both teams the advantage of knowing it's coming, and when.

And Max, I admit I don't know a whole lot about confogl, but messing with the scoring just isn't something I think needs to be done, which I'm pretty certain confogl does (adding in health bonus').

So all other things being equal if I gave you the option of going first or second which would you prefer knowing that if you go second you know exactly where the tank is? I will bet for most people they would prefer to go second. To me that states that it is also "not fair". It may be "more fair" than getting screwed by a shitty tank spawn, but at least with a shitty random tank spawn it could be "not fair" for the winning OR losing team each game whereas the same spawn will be "not fair" for the winning team every time.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by maximusboomus

Nah confogl is awesome comp style, exactly same spawn locations, only tier 2s 1 rifle, no health packs only pills, its wonderful, but for everyday gaming a little restricted.

I suppose I'll agree to try it, but like you said it doesn't sound like it's something for everyday use and I play basically every day lol.

**maximusboomus** · 06-13-11, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

Ummm, Civil....you've got 4.5 hours in L4D2 according to Steam....I had more than that in-game yesterday alone

And Kanati just doesn't like change. That's one of the problems with being older then dirt, change is scary.

Lol @ Kanati Pinata (while he's at work) he'll have a few pokes to retaliate against tonight rofl...

**CivilWars** · 06-13-11, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

Ummm, Civil....you've got 4.5 hours in L4D2 according to Steam....I had more than that in-game yesterday alone

And Kanati just doesn't like change. That's one of the problems with being older then dirt, change is scary.

Hence my joke. My play time is what makes it humorous.

Be careful, Kanati is not MUCH older than me, but I like change as long as it is good change.

**maximusboomus** · 06-13-11, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Hence my joke. My play time is what makes it humorous.

Be careful, Kanati is not MUCH older than me, but I like change as long as it is good change.

Ye gads yer that old! Next you'll be as old as the old fart known as Dex...

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So all other things being equal if I gave you the option of going first or second which would you prefer knowing that if you go second you know exactly where the tank is? I will bet for most people they would prefer to go second. To me that states that it is also "not fair". It may be "more fair" than getting screwed by a shitty tank spawn, but at least with a shitty random tank spawn it could be "not fair" for the winning OR losing team each game whereas the same spawn will be "not fair" for the winning team every time.

I'm afraid I don't agree. It may be true on the first map of a campaign, when picking a side might actually have a meaning, but for the rest of the campaign the team going 2nd is SUPPOSED to have an advantage, because they're losing. It's fair for both teams because the first time through no one knows if there's going to be a tank, or where, so everything plays as normal. When that tank spawns, most times the SI aren't going to have a hit ready and are going to be caught by just as much surprise as the SV team, and won't be able to play it as effectively as they could've. The second time through, that team playing SI will be able to tailor their hits so they have something ready around tank-time, giving them just as much of an advantage as the SV knowing it's there. Both teams know it's coming, both teams prepare for it. It's a matter of who prepares better.

If that 2nd SI team sets up a monster hit knowing the tank's coming, they took more advantage of knowing the spawn. If their hit fails, the SV's were able to play it more effectively. Simple as that.

**Bunni** · 06-13-11, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I guess my point is that while there is variation it is random, and not guaranteed to favor one team or the other. Whereas if you make is the same you for sure give an advantage to the second team as they know exactly where the tank will be while still in the confines of the safe room.

ya, we are all agreeing on that, but as it stands, its really not that random, regardless the second team knows pretty well the area the tank will be and the farthest point in the map where they HAVE to be prepared. And there is not much we can do to change the fact that 1st infected have the knowledge of the lay of the land...

On another note, we could change things, to try and make the game a little more difficult for 2nd survivor during the FIRST map to try and balance. Because afterwords the point leading team gets survivor' which i guess is valves way of helping out the losing team? From here out when i refer to a slight increase i am talking about increasing probabilities by tenths and hundredths, nothing too drastic) For example for first map during the 2nd survivors round, we could slightly increase the rate of witches, have the tank spawn SOONER (barred we actually can), slightly decrease pill spawn's/shot spawns (so item spawns would be a little different, yes, would help to randomize a little, through them off a little from any treasure hunting they did as infected), etc. To try and make it just a little harder.

IDK, we should at least try it out though, which is what this thread is all about, TRYING it out. We can also make map specific setting changes ....