Second teams' Tank Spawn Distance Variation

**CivilWars** · 06-13-11, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by maximusboomus

Ye gads yer that old! Next you'll be as old as the old fart known as Dex...

I think Dex is old enough to be my dad.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bunni

ya, we are all agreeing on that, but as it stands, its really not that random, regardless the second team knows pretty well the area the tank will be and the farthest point in the map where they HAVE to be prepared. And there is not much we can do to change the fact that 1st infected have the knowledge of the lay of the land...

On another note, we could change things, to try and make the game a little more difficult for 2nd survivor during the FIRST map to try and balance. Because afterwords the point leading team gets survivor' which i guess is valves way of helping out the losing team? From here out when i refer to a slight increase i am talking about increasing probabilities by tenths and hundredths, nothing too drastic) For example for first map during the 2nd survivors round, we could slightly increase the rate of witches, have the tank spawn SOONER (barred we actually can), slightly decrease pill spawn's/shot spawns (so item spawns would be a little different, yes, would help to randomize a little, through them off a little from any treasure hunting they did as infected), etc. To try and make it just a little harder.

IDK, we should at least try it out though, which is what this thread is all about, TRYING it out. We can also make map specific setting changes ....

Think you got part of that backwards Bunni, cause the points leaders have to play SV first

**maximusboomus** · 06-13-11, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I think Dex is old enough to be my dad.

In BF2 he was often...

My Daddy.

**Bunni** · 06-13-11, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

Think you got part of that backwards Bunni, cause the points leaders have to play SV first

MUHAHAHAHA idk what your talking about, looks right to me

**CivilWars** · 06-13-11, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

I'm afraid I don't agree. It may be true on the first map of a campaign, when picking a side might actually have a meaning, but for the rest of the campaign the team going 2nd is SUPPOSED to have an advantage, because they're losing. It's fair for both teams because the first time through no one knows if there's going to be a tank, or where, so everything plays as normal. When that tank spawns, most times the SI aren't going to have a hit ready and are going to be caught by just as much surprise as the SV team, and won't be able to play it as effectively as they could've. The second time through, that team playing SI will be able to tailor their hits so they have something ready around tank-time, giving them just as much of an advantage as the SV knowing it's there. Both teams know it's coming, both teams prepare for it. It's a matter of who prepares better.

If that 2nd SI team sets up a monster hit knowing the tank's coming, they took more advantage of knowing the spawn. If their hit fails, the SV's were able to play it more effectively. Simple as that.

Sure, both teams know, and can plan accordingly, but as I said, if you give people the opportunity to go first, and not know, or go second and know, I will bet that most would prefer to know. Heck, if I know where the tank is I also can get a pretty good idea of where you will set up as SV to play off of the tank.

As I said, it may be "more fair" but that is part of the good/bad of the L4D series in that there are some things that are out of player control that can affect the outcome, like tanks, witches, and common.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bunni

MUHAHAHAHA idk what your talking about, looks right to me

Lies! You and your "edit" feature

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Sure, both teams know, and can plan accordingly, but as I said, if you give people the opportunity to go first, and not know, or go second and know, I will bet that most would prefer to know. Heck, if I know where the tank is I also can get a pretty good idea of where you will set up as SV to play off of the tank.

As I said, it may be "more fair" but that is part of the good/bad of the L4D series in that there are some things that are out of player control that can affect the outcome, like tanks, witches, and common.

Most of the game it's not a choice the players actively make, so it doesn't matter whether a person would choose to go second and know. For them to have that they have to be losing, which by definition means they need the help of that particular advantage. The only time a person is able to choose to go 2nd is pre-game, and SI is already chosen first anyways.

Also, it may be part of the "good/bad" of the L4D series, but considering a lot of the people who actively play the game (this doesn't include you Civil, since you haven't played since Christ was a Kid) try to keep things fair and balanced (by false-starting random so teams can be evened, choosing captains, splitting new players, etc.) maybe it's something that TeamPlayerGaming should take it upon theirselves to fix.

**flame** · 06-13-11, 03:27 PM

5% makes a big difference. However I do like the randomness. Maybe cut it to 1 or 2% variance? Also on a note of not opening the doors when a tank is outside... Real life, I hear a big ass zombie going nuts, I'm not opening the door. Call it cheap, but you use the natural flow and variances. There have been plenty of times where I was on a team that took advantage on either side knowing where the tank was. Sometimes SI plans to play the tank well, others the survivors play tank well. Its all for fun, no need to worry that you got screwed on tank spawn. Although I wouldnt mind more uniformity.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by flame

5% makes a big difference. However I do like the randomness. Maybe cut it to 1 or 2% variance? Also on a note of not opening the doors when a tank is outside... Real life, I hear a big ass zombie going nuts, I'm not opening the door. Call it cheap, but you use the natural flow and variances. There have been plenty of times where I was on a team that took advantage on either side knowing where the tank was. Sometimes SI plans to play the tank well, others the survivors play tank well. Its all for fun, no need to worry that you got screwed on tank spawn. Although I wouldnt mind more uniformity.

Most games I don't care, but when it happens when I'm playing in a game that feels competitive like the occasional all-vet games, it gets frustrating knowing that you could've beaten a great team if you hadn't been royally screwed by a bad tank spawn.

**Kanati** · 06-13-11, 04:55 PM

Bunni. I honestly don't know how long you've been playing, but these are all things Valve did... When the game came out items were randomized. One team would get guns in one place and the other team had them spawn somewhere else. They did this to promote shopping and slow things down a bit. If the teams wanted those guns and pills and such they had to look for them. It didn't work and people bitched. So they got rid of that and made uniform spawns for both teams.

The tanks and witches used to be random spawns for both teams. People bitched that teams had unfair advantages... So them made them have much smaller variances. Witches, if wandering, can have quite a wide variance, but sitting witches are usually within 10 feet or so of the first team's spawned witch. Tanks are within 5% of the map distance from the first team's spawned tank. 95% of the time it doesn't make one bit of difference. And when it does it's a crapshoot as to who it'll favor.

I like that TPG doesn't mod the shit out of their servers. That's always been a plus for me. And now we're talking about modding them (even if it's only slightly). Not the coolest thing I've heard lately. :/

**Adretheon** · 06-13-11, 05:24 PM

The problem, for me, with the way it was was the point system. Both teams would get the same points regardless of the amount of work they had to put into beating the game. So one team had to fight twice as hard to get into the saferoom cause they didn't get T2, but got just as many points as the other team who had T3, three pipes, bile, and a million pills.

Point system is what needs to be fixed more so than anything.