Second teams' Tank Spawn Distance Variation

**Bunni** · 06-12-11, 10:31 PM

So theres a handful of scenes (maps) in campaigns where, if the first team gets a tank, the second infected team's tank spawn position royally FUCKS the second team.

Best example, is Dead Center, first scene/map: if the first infected team gets a tank, its right before the elevator usually in-capping all of the survivors for anyone a dozen reason, a few examples:

only pistols, melee, and maybe degals (unless the player controlling the tank really wamp on him with melee)
usually do not have a Molotov, and even if they do, theres little room to run and kite, as there are countless death charge spots and instant jocky and smoker incapt' locations.

And usually guaranteed, if the tank spawned up top for the first team, for the second team it spawns downstairs, in the fire (and subsequently on fire) with no way to get to the survivors until they take the elevator down (which takes forever, taking a massive percent of the tanks health), and actively open the doors (they can wait for the tank to die before opening the doors, if they are cheep), (not to mention the guaranteed primary weapon spawn in front of the elevator)

Which means, if the second survivor team are cheep and looking to win, rather than have a good game, they will keep the elevator doors closed. Then for all intensive purposes the second infected get no tank. Which means, we mise as well just have random tank spawns on (ie, would mean tank spawns are completely random for each round on a scene, just because one team got a tank does not mean the other team will, something we obviously do not want)! Because at that point the game is heavily side-flooped and a large point difference to make up for a map bug.

We can control this distance variation and set it to zero to force the tank to spawn in the same distance; we may even be able to only set this for certain maps (ex plugin1 or plugin2 or we can steel some stuff from confogl)

May even set tank spawn distance variation to zero for all maps on a single server? See just what kind of an advantage survivors can get from knowing the exact tank spawn location?

Thoughts?

for me:

Code:

sm_cvar versus_tank_flow_team_variation 0

**¤[BlitzKrieg]¤** · 06-12-11, 10:40 PM

confogl.

**Graverunner** · 06-13-11, 01:23 AM

Last night on No Mercy one team got the tank in the subway station by the trains. The other team got it downstairs as soon as someone got to the bottom of the escalator and before the first molotov. Both teams ended up having one runner but in general the differences really mess with the points. If both tanks incapped everyone, team one would have gotten more points just for getting the tank later. Seems like a no brainer to me to have identical tank spawns.

**~BigTymer~** · 06-13-11, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bunni

So theres a handful of scenes (maps) in campaigns where, if the first team gets a tank, the second infected team's tank spawn position royally FUCKS the second team.

Best example, is Dead Center, first scene/map: if the first infected team gets a tank, its right before the elevator usually in-capping all of the survivors for anyone a dozen reason, a few examples:

only pistols, melee, and maybe degals (unless the player controlling the tank really wamp on him with melee)
usually do not have a Molotov, and even if they do, theres little room to run and kite, as there are countless death charge spots and instant jocky and smoker incapt' locations.

And usually guaranteed, if the tank spawned up top for the first team, for the second team it spawns downstairs, in the fire (and subsequently on fire) with no way to get to the survivors until they take the elevator down (which takes forever, taking a massive percent of the tanks health), and actively open the doors (they can wait for the tank to die before opening the doors, if they are cheep), (not to mention the guaranteed primary weapon spawn in front of the elevator)

Which means, if the second survivor team are cheep and looking to win, rather than have a good game, they will keep the elevator doors closed. Then for all intensive purposes the second infected get no tank. Which means, we mise as well just have random tank spawns on (ie, would mean tank spawns are completely random for each round on a scene, just because one team got a tank does not mean the other team will, something we obviously do not want)! Because at that point the game is heavily side-flooped and a large point difference to make up for a map bug.

We can control this distance variation and set it to zero to force the tank to spawn in the same distance; we may even be able to only set this for certain maps (ex plugin1 or plugin2 or we can steel some stuff from confogl)

May even set tank spawn distance variation to zero for all maps on a single server? See just what kind of an advantage survivors can get from knowing the exact tank spawn location?

Thoughts?

for me:

Code:

sm_cvar versus_tank_flow_team_variation 0

This has been a problem and I agree we should try something. I would welcome any good idea like the one above.

**Mr_Blonde_OPS** · 06-13-11, 04:35 AM

I think setting it to one or two servers is a good idea. See how it works out and if need be add it to all four.

**Sawemoff** · 06-13-11, 07:31 AM

Sometimes the variation makes the game exciting, but several times a team will lose simply because of tank spawn location... I think that's one event that has too much control on the outcome of a game. If anything a tank should spawn earlier the second time as opposed to later. The second team is already expecting the tank, has a plan for how to deal with it and simply has a huge advantage already.

**Morningfrost** · 06-13-11, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Sawemoff

Sometimes the variation makes the game exciting, but several times a team will lose simply because of tank spawn location... I think that's one event that has too much control on the outcome of a game. If anything a tank should spawn earlier the second time as opposed to later. The second team is already expecting the tank, has a plan for how to deal with it and simply has a huge advantage already.

Yeah, that advantage is pretty hard to overcome sometimes. It's not QUITE as bad with witches, though I played a game last night where the first SI team on the Barns map made us pay HARD around a witch cause we didn't know where she was at first.

Tanks spawning in a similar place would be something I could get behind, but I like Saw's idea. Is there a way to set the tank flow so that it's -5%-0% instead of +/- 5%? That way it can come at the same spot or still get there 5% earlier. Keeps a little bit of the surprise and reduces the rather large advantage of knowing when the tank is coming and being able to set up for it.

**Kanati** · 06-13-11, 08:27 AM

We've played it fine for 3 years. Why is it now suddenly a problem? I vote no, no, NO to actual gameplay changes. Pause feature is great. But it doesn't affect game play.

The tank spawns +/- 5% of the map distance. Period. That's the way it is. And it's RARE that it spawns upstairs for one and downstairs for another on DC1. I've seen it MAYBE twice since the +/-5% thing went into effect. And that's with over 1000 hours in game.

**Thorsen** · 06-13-11, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

We've played it fine for 3 years. Why is it now suddenly a problem? I vote no, no, NO to actual gameplay changes. Pause feature is great. But it doesn't affect game play.

The tank spawns +/- 5% of the map distance. Period. That's the way it is. And it's RARE that it spawns upstairs for one and downstairs for another on DC1. I've seen it MAYBE twice since the +/-5% thing went into effect. And that's with over 1000 hours in game.

WAT?!? Kanati doesn't like this idea? How surprising!

Seriously though I wouldn't mind this change. Tanks are WAY too important to leave up to chance. Getting a tank 15 feet closer or farther away can change the outcome of an entire game EASILY.

If I wanted to gamble I'd play Poker.

**maximusboomus** · 06-13-11, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Thorsen

WAT?!? Kanati doesn't like this idea? How surprising!

Seriously though I wouldn't mind this change. Tanks are WAY too important to leave up to chance. Getting a tank 15 feet closer or farther away can change the outcome of an entire game EASILY.

If I wanted to gamble I'd play Poker.

But you hardly know her...

Yeah fuck Kanatis opinion tanks fuck up a good game 90% of the time on DC... I see my team always get an early tank and die, then the opposing team sprint it and get to the saferoom... If we could control this I'm all for, especially since it'll make Kanati grumble... hehe