Thread: I'll gladly move on

I'll gladly move on, a shame that it has come to this, you have lost a great teamplayer. If there was a TK I would have confessed to it to avoid this muck. Perhaps in the future I will see you on the battlefield.

Personally, Ret1, I think you should stick around.

If you think we're messed up, wouldn't it be easier to change us from inside the house instead of outside the house? This place is dynamic, we grow, things change, we adapt.

Your posts have been very well handled. Admirably so. I wish all players that had problems came in that way. Take the 30 days and come back again.

Locked.

Now I play L4dx a lot like many other people here: but I'm gonna rant about a few things that have been bothering me for some time.

Quite frankly, for future L4Ds (if planned), I think Valve needs to grow some balls. Yes, balls. This needs to be said (if it hasn't already been said here by others):

REAL ZOMBIES BITE, TEAR, CHEW AND SAVAGE. REAL ZOMBIES WANT TO EAT YOU - THEY DO NOT ROLL YOU FOR YOUR LUNCH MONEY. Punching and stomping zombies, Valve? Really? Dudes and dudettes, you seriously need to take a lesson from the folks who made Killing Floor - now THOSE are infected! If your rationale is that you simply wanted to open your game up to a broader, PG and watered-down market and make more $$, then you're just sellouts.


Another reason why L4D is ultimately a very conservative game: there is no surprise. It's obvious that everything is enclosed within the stylings of film narrative - from the opening movie posters to the end credits. But has anyone considered how this hurts the spontaneity of the game? You almost always hear music before a horde, and you always hear music when the Tank is alive and chasing you. Where's the shock value and spontaneity? Everything is safely contained and insulated within this film motif (which makes me laugh whenever I hear about L4D being banned in places like Australia)...after a few plays there is no shock, no surprise...

Now, I know It's difficult enough to preserve that novelty in a gaming culture where most people are dimwits with the attention span of your average flea; we live in a culture of disclosure where everyone wants information on what's going to happen - from details about new monsters to how things end...before they're even begun. What's even worse is that so many people want to play games like they're punching the clock at work - they want the achievements and to say "they did it" without necessarily appreciating the details and innovations of a new game (this is why I never play mutiplayer).

How about trying to, you know, do something novel in this respect? How about including all sorts of elements and never telling anyone? Let THEM figure it out! How about surprising us all with a NIGHTMARE mode with no music or audio cues, bile and pipe bombs that explode if burned by a Molotov, and REAL zombies? Of course, if you follow these directions it won't be a surprise, but no one ever listens to me anyway :rolleyes:

Ok, that's about enough ranting for now...I have other ideas but having one post ignored per day is enough for me ;)

Originally Posted by sniped02

Except these zombies are not zombies, they are infected humans.They are not cannibals, they are just crazy. Also, L4d2 is a lot more gory than KF.

Really? Semantics time on what weren't even my main points? Ok....no one else makes a meaningful distinction (is gamer culture all of a sudden so perceptive?), but if we're gonna be sticklers all of a sudden......

Edit: REAL INFECTED BITE, TEAR, CHEW AND SAVAGE. REAL INFECTED WANT TO EAT YOU - THEY DO NOT ROLL YOU FOR YOUR LUNCH MONEY. Punching and stomping infected, Valve? Really?

There. Either way, there's a distinction between the passive imagery (where arguably l4d2 is more gory than KF - unless you have some wussy no-gore option on) and what actively happens in the game (KF is definitely more gory than l4dx: clawing, rending, pastifying, cannibalism etc). And did I say they were cannibals? And if we're gonna be sticklers, how can you prove they AREN'T cannibals?

However you want to quibble, my point is this: notice the disconnect between the gore levels in L4Dx with zomb...errr, INFECTED that don't wanna do anything more than put the beats on you like a group of gangbangers. Where did all the gore COME from, then?

A lot of what I'm about to say is going to be a polite debate, so don't take any of these personally or act defensively; it's just my view on things. Also sorry if I've repeated points made by others.

Originally Posted by traumaturgist

Now I play L4dx a lot like many other people here: but I'm gonna rant about a few things that have been bothering me for some time.

Quite frankly, for future L4Ds (if planned), I think Valve needs to grow some balls. Yes, balls. This needs to be said (if it hasn't already been said here by others):

REAL ZOMBIES BITE, TEAR, CHEW AND SAVAGE. REAL ZOMBIES WANT TO EAT YOU - THEY DO NOT ROLL YOU FOR YOUR LUNCH MONEY. Punching and stomping zombies, Valve? Really? Dudes and dudettes, you seriously need to take a lesson from the folks who made Killing Floor - now THOSE are infected! If your rationale is that you simply wanted to open your game up to a broader, PG and watered-down market and make more $$, then you're just sellouts.

As other said, they already technically bite you. Even in KF, you never really know how specifically they're damaging you -- you only know that they're damaging you. -- I never know if the clots are grabbing onto my with their hands, biting me, hitting me with their hooks, all you know is that they're latching onto you and doing damage. The same goes for L4D, Valve has told us via comics and etc, that the infected are doing damage by any means necessary within their capable abilities. I personally would rather them spend the processing power and time developing more gameplay than making arbitrary animations of them biting you. It wouldn't affect gameplay at all, and it really doesn't even add to the immersion department, either.

Another reason why L4D is ultimately a very conservative game: there is no surprise. It's obvious that everything is enclosed within the stylings of film narrative - from the opening movie posters to the end credits. But has anyone considered how this hurts the spontaneity of the game? You almost always hear music before a horde, and you always hear music when the Tank is alive and chasing you. Where's the shock value and spontaneity? Everything is safely contained and insulated within this film motif (which makes me laugh whenever I hear about L4D being banned in places like Australia)...after a few plays there is no shock, no surprise...

I'm going to assume here you're only playing campaign and not versus -- because the Special Infected are what's suppose to give you the surprise. The fact that they can attack you from any direction, from any height for the most part should keep you on your toes. The common infected aren't the main staple of the game, the special infected are(I feel like I'm going to get flak on this point -- what I mean is this is what truly adds the surprise factor and makes interesting gameplay. There are plenty of games already out that just have regular zombies, SI is what makes Valves game more competitive and interesting i.e. surprising). The commons are there for a nuisance and for immersion. They're the regular grunt/conscript and regardless whether or not there's music, the horde is pretty random enough as it is. If we need to make concessions -- I say we get rid of the subtitles alerting people there's a horde coming because many people take advantage of a feature that's meant specifically for people who can't hear in the first place.

Now, I know It's difficult enough to preserve that novelty in a gaming culture where most people are dimwits with the attention span of your average flea; we live in a culture of disclosure where everyone wants information on what's going to happen - from details about new monsters to how things end...before they're even begun. What's even worse is that so many people want to play games like they're punching the clock at work - they want the achievements and to say "they did it" without necessarily appreciating the details and innovations of a new game (this is why I never play mutiplayer).

How about trying to, you know, do something novel in this respect? How about including all sorts of elements and never telling anyone? Let THEM figure it out! How about surprising us all with a NIGHTMARE mode with no music or audio cues, bile and pipe bombs that explode if burned by a Molotov, and REAL zombies? Of course, if you follow these directions it won't be a surprise, but no one ever listens to me anyway :rolleyes:

It sounds like you want realism versus or realism mode in general. And don't say Left 4 Dead isn't a novel idea -- it's basically the first of it's kind in the video game genre. It was able to make a zombie apocalypse and turn it into a real competitive game, not to mention it's one of the first zombie games where being a "zombie" doesn't feel like a chore or like you're extremely underpowered. No offense to zombie master or zombie panic -- but it doesn't really offer anything besides just be a zombie and melee people. Like I said before, Special infected are what makes this game what it is.

Ok, that's about enough ranting for now...I have other ideas but having one post ignored per day is enough for me ;)

If you have more ideas, please feel free to share them, there isn't a limit to expressing your opinion :)

Oh yeah, this game is so conservative, with the highest rating it could be given here in the UK.

It's not supposed to be a horror game you know? It's main intent isn't to scare you, and thus, it isn't at all scary. There's no need for it to shock you or keep you on edge permanently.