An Admins word

**sL!ppY** · 05-05-09, 08:59 PM

I would like to formally file a complaint of admin abuse against both scrum, and against how the ban system is set up.

For reference here is the ban thread: http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=61188.0

Needless to say Scrum banned me for something he thinks he heard on voice chat from myself. I still strongly maintain that what he claims i said wasnt even close to what i did say and that my comment was in no way an angry response to the admin. I was amused that i had been switched in warmup mode because neither team had even played a round yet and therefor neither team was technically overpowered. I was laughing to myself over it, made an innocent comment and was promptly banned much to my surprise. I even got some surprised PM's later on about the fact i was banned.

Now i dont know if scrum simply made a mistake in what he believed he heard or what but regardless this ban was going to be decided simply based upon his word versus mine. Obviously an admins word is going to carry more weight then a players word that is clear. However all admins make mistakes, and a few even use their positions in a way to help themselves or the people they like while mistreating those they may not like, abusing their power in the process. Such are the reasons why an admin abuse forum is necessary. Admins are human and mistakes do happen. I have been an admin for 3 different pub communities in CSS as well as an assistant to several TWL admins in hack prevention for the game Unreal Tournament 2004. I have seen my share of such situations come and go and made a few mistakes myself because im only human. This is why in nearly all communities, demos, screenshots, witness statements, or some form of proof is required to uphold a ban regardless of what the ban was for. Simply taking an admins word is not good enough because you can have situations where an admin made a mistake or abused his power.

In this case i was judged simply based upon a single admins word. Now i challenge anyone to say that scrum could not of made a mistake in what he heard. People were joining the server, warmup mode was going on, intro music playing, folks were talking and goofing off, and i would guess it would be quite easy to make such a mistake. However he used what he "thinks" he heard as fuel to ban me and then that ban was upheld based upon his word without any proof. He claimed to have witnesses and yet never once did anyone post in the ban thread as a witness for either side. All im asking here is for you to truely think about how this ban played out.

As carefull as TTP is in picking their admins, they are not free from mistakes, and abusive admins. For a ban to be upheld i honestly dont see how proof shouldnt be required in whatever form. Perhaps this means requiring Admins to be running demos whenever they are in the servers and taking status screenshots every so often. I know its more work but it helps by both providing proof in cases as well as helping the admins cover their own butts if they are accused of something. Needless to say this is a loophole that would allow mistakes in bans occasionally. It also would allow people abusing their admin to get away with things more easily.

I was banned based upon the word of 1 individual. 1 "human" individual with no evidence to back up his claim besides his word. I may have not had evidence on my end either but then again... im not an admin making these types of decisions and choices. Please review this particular case and how the ban system currently is set up.

Thank you for your time.

-sL!ppY

**Walkerxes** · 05-05-09, 10:42 PM

Who else was there? Any other regs? If so, why didn't any speak up for you as direct witnessess? You made a comment in your ban thread that you'd been recieving messages of support.. but were they relevant messages, or just people who don't like authority? ..if you knew any legit direct witnesses, you should have asked them to speak up with what they saw/heard.

The burden of proof, however, was on you.

**Bunni** · 05-05-09, 10:52 PM

Seeing as admins are disagreeing on what occured, this event will be investigated. Please stand by

**sL!ppY** · 05-05-09, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Walkerxes

Who else was there? Any other regs? If so, why didn't any speak up for you as direct witnessess? You made a comment in your ban thread that you'd been recieving messages of support.. but were they relevant messages, or just people who don't like authority? ..if you knew any legit direct witnesses, you should have asked them to speak up with what they saw/heard.

The burden of proof, however, was on you.

Understandable, however when your banned at the warmup phase, knowing who exactly was on each team and who was even in the server can be tough. Since it was a voice situation only the CT side would of been witnesses. Out of those how many are regs who would be easy to track down and who would be willing to step up and speak up not to mention even remember what went down. Additionally since it was during warmup phase and a bunch of folks were talking, how many actually heard what was said and remember without a doubt the comment/s. Its not as easy as it appears. But believe me.. even though my ban was upheld i am still attempting to support my case. Im not going to go throwing out names because i dont wish to cause drama or put folks in the spotlight who dont wish to be there.

However the fact still remains, while the burden of proof falls on me since i was the accused, bans based upon he said she said are automatically questionable without any recordings, demos, screenshots, or other witnesses for the prosecution. A single person saying you commited a crime wont hold up in court without additional witnesses or evidence.

**Scrum** · 05-05-09, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by sL!ppY

I would like to formally file a complaint of admin abuse against both scrum, and against how the ban system is set up.

For reference here is the ban thread: http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=61188.0

Needless to say Scrum banned me for something he thinks he heard on voice chat from myself. I still strongly maintain that what he claims i said wasnt even close to what i did say and that my comment was in no way an angry response to the admin. I was amused that i had been switched in warmup mode because neither team had even played a round yet and therefor neither team was technically overpowered. I was laughing to myself over it, made an innocent comment and was promptly banned much to my surprise. I even got some surprised PM's later on about the fact i was banned.

In this case i was judged simply based upon a single admins word. Now i challenge anyone to say that scrum could not of made a mistake in what he heard. People were joining the server, warmup mode was going on, intro music playing, folks were talking and goofing off, and i would guess it would be quite easy to make such a mistake. However he used what he "thinks" he heard as fuel to ban me and then that ban was upheld based upon his word without any proof. He claimed to have witnesses and yet never once did anyone post in the ban thread as a witness for either side. All im asking here is for you to truely think about how this ban played out.

As carefull as TTP is in picking their admins, they are not free from mistakes, and abusive admins. For a ban to be upheld i honestly dont see how proof shouldnt be required in whatever form. Perhaps this means requiring Admins to be running demos whenever they are in the servers and taking status screenshots every so often. I know its more work but it helps by both providing proof in cases as well as helping the admins cover their own butts if they are accused of something. Needless to say this is a loophole that would allow mistakes in bans occasionally. It also would allow people abusing their admin to get away with things more easily.

I was banned based upon the word of 1 individual. 1 "human" individual with no evidence to back up his claim besides his word. I may have not had evidence on my end either but then again... im not an admin making these types of decisions and choices. Please review this particular case and how the ban system currently is set up.

Thank you for your time.

-sL!ppY

Slippy people did think truely think about how this played out. That is why there is a ban voting process. People think and discuss and the community made a decision - by a large majority.

Magus actually pmed today his account of what happened and confirms that you were obviously not happy with the decision to be moved.
_________________________________________________
Master_Magus: at the start of inferno during the warmup round, I saw the player moved admin message of Slippy
Master_Magus: right after that Slippy start saying "A round hasn't even started and I am already being moved", "You gotta be joking", "The admin gotta have something against me" and some other stuff. It was easy to tell that Slippy wasn't happen with admin decision. For the cussing, i wasn't sure about since I was making fun of Pootie during this time
_________________________________________________
Now I'm sure Magus didn't recall all of what you said or exactly what you said and grant it - he wasn't sure if you were cussing or not, but he obviously felt and heard you were pissed about it. So you might ask what was the other stuff Magus reffered to? Well- I came in and heard specifically you say (paraphrasing) "Fucking Admin moving me before the round even starts. Fucking Stupid..." on and on...

You even stated in your ban post you might have cussed - Seems like you're not 100% on what you said - but I am and the biggest thing is in which the tone you said it. You were pissed.

So there you go. It was obvious you weren't happy with the decision and you ranted about it for more than one comment as you stated in your account of it. And all over what? Being team switched to the hard side...So who's maybe making the mistake here? I have yet you say anything to the fact that you may have been in the wrong. Only the admin...

**sL!ppY** · 05-05-09, 11:39 PM

And yet Magus's account differs from the original account that you provided as a response to my initial ban thread. So now there are 3 different versions of what i may or may not of said. This imo only further goes to show what i was saying... its very easy to make mistakes on what you think someone said. I also do not recall ever saying the admin must have something against me and i never typed a single thing. I used voice when i made my 1 line of comment and was laughing the whole time. I wasnt angry at all.. i was expressing my amusement. You moved me on Aztec to i believe and i didnt complain then. In fact ive NEVER complained to the admin about being moved from one team to the other since ive been back and ive been moved a LOT. And How can you guess what my tone is over the internet via a voice chat system. It struggles to even keep voices similar to how they are in real life and yet your using it to determine my intent.

EDIT: Finally you state:

Originally Posted by Scrum

Now I'm sure Magus didn't recall all of what you said or exactly what you said and grant it - he wasn't sure if you were cussing or not, but he obviously felt and heard you were pissed about it. So you might ask what was the other stuff Magus reffered to? Well- I came in and heard specifically you say (paraphrasing) "Fucking Admin moving me before the round even starts. Fucking Stupid..." on and on...
[color=red][b]

Well now hold on... if i recall correctly you moved me from one team to another AFTER you had joined the CT side. So whats this buisness of you "came in" and heard me? yet Magus claims that i was saying stuff prior to you joining. But i HADNT been moved before you joined.. so why would i be saying anything? Perhaps im misunderstanding what your saying... but that doesnt make any sense.

Needless to say once again i disagree with what you testifying to and will continue to attempt to support my case.

**Scrum** · 05-06-09, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by sL!ppY

And yet Magus's account differs from the original account that you provided as a response to my initial ban thread. So now there are 3 different versions of what i may or may not of said. This imo only further goes to show what i was saying... its very easy to make mistakes on what you think someone said. I also do not recall ever saying the admin must have something against me and i never typed a single thing. I used voice when i made my 1 line of comment and was laughing the whole time. I wasnt angry at all.. i was expressing my amusement. You moved me on Aztec to i believe and i didnt complain then. In fact ive NEVER complained to the admin about being moved from one team to the other since ive been back and ive been moved a LOT. And How can you guess what my tone is over the internet via a voice chat system. It struggles to even keep voices similar to how they are in real life and yet your using it to determine my intent.

Well now hold on... if i recall correctly you moved me from one team to another AFTER you had joined the CT side. So whats this buisness of you "came in" and heard me? yet Magus claims that i was saying stuff prior to you joining. But i HADNT been moved before you joined.. so why would i be saying anything? Perhaps im misunderstanding what your saying... but that doesnt make any sense.

Needless to say once again i disagree with what you testifying to and will continue to attempt to support my case.

#1. You recall wrong. I was in spec mode, moved you to T (which would take place at the EOR) and immediately joined CT to hear you ranting.
#2. Magus's account doesn't differ all that much except the fact he said he wasn't sure about the cussing part because he was making fun of Mark.
#3. Try to cover your ass all you want, there was no mistake in what I heard.... Funny how you have no recollection of what you said huh...
#4. I didn't move you on Aztec. And you didn't complain because you already got your 3:1 K:D and were probably satisfied at that point since there were many rounds already played.
#5. I didn't have to guess at your tone. It's very easy to hear when someone is pissed bud. No guessing about it.
#6. Magus states that clearly you were not happy. So that is two people saying you were pissed. But yet you still claim to be a big jokester. Sorry not buying it.
#7. I'm 100% sure that what I was heard was you cussing and bitching about being moved.

I like how you keep trying to make this whole situation so cloudy as to benefit you, instead of admitting your mistake like a man and moving on. I really have nothing more to add.

**sL!ppY** · 05-06-09, 12:50 AM

I refuse to admit to something i did not do... plain and simple. I was at no point pissed at being moved... and was completely shocked when i was banned because i had no clue why i would of been banned for the remark i made which in NO way represents what you claim.

As for making things cloudy.. they were cloudy from the begining simply because neither side can bring definitive proof to the table. We can only bring our word and we clearly disagree. I made this admin abuse thread because i dont understand how someone can be banned purely based upon what someone "thought" they heard without any other shreds of proof to back up the exact reason they were banned.

Im not going to argue back and forth with you anymore because clearly this isnt getting anywhere. Both sides think something different and neither side has yet to provide a witness to the reason for the ban. You brough Magus's statement but its pretty vague and imo incorrect. He also says he didnt hear the so called "cussing" part which was the reason you made the ban in the first place.

I hope others read this and understand why i feel this ban was unjustified and i will continue to dispute this ban and attempt to push my case.. so long as it is necessary.

**Consultant** · 05-06-09, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

#1. You recall wrong. I was in spec mode, moved you to T (which would take place at the EOR) and immediately joined CT to hear you ranting.

Not taking anybody's side here, but either all talk was on or you are phrasing this wrong.

If you were on spec, and moved him to T, then joined CT - how did you hear him ranting?

I may be confused on how setup time works, can both teams hear each other or were you two on the same team?

**DuDDy** · 05-06-09, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Consultant

Originally Posted by Scrum

#1. You recall wrong. I was in spec mode, moved you to T (which would take place at the EOR) and immediately joined CT to hear you ranting.

Not taking anybody's side here, but either all talk was on or you are phrasing this wrong.

If you were on spec, and moved him to T, then joined CT - how did you hear him ranting?

I may be confused on how setup time works, can both teams hear each other or were you two on the same team?

It all depends on the type of switch the admin (Scrum) did at the time. In mani there are two types of team switching by the admin, end of round, and immediate switch. With end of round, the switch does not occur until the end of the current round, and the player will be on the opposite team at the start of the next round. Immediate switch, well I hope that is self explanatory.

Hope this helps Consultant.