Kicked from PR Server: Kozelsk 12:30EST (-5:00GMT)

**Atrovenator** · 07-09-09, 12:02 AM

This is a formal complaint about an admin decision made on the project reality server. It pains me to have to do this, since I have long been silent in this community. I have recently returned to project reality and have been taking every opportunity I have to play on the TTP server since I missed very much the community and the people who play here. I do not want to have to give Texas Teamplayers a negative personal review and have always promoted the server to any new or veteran players of PR that I meet. However, I find it difficult to continue playing there after the demonstration of absolute abuse of power that I (and my two squadmates fell victim to).

I created a squad entitled 'T-90 Alpha' on Kozelsk, meanwhile another player Gwbush created a squad called 'Tank.' When I pointed out that we should amalgamate, he joined me, instructing his two other squad members to do so also. At this point, I had been playing all night waiting for an opportunity to crew a tank. That is what I truly love to do in pr, and my only other opportunity (two rounds before on Al-Basrah) came to an end less than a minute in, courtesy of Big Red and spotty intel. My squadmate from the two previous rounds spawned in as well, joining our squad, but Gwbush's two other squadmates decided against joining us in the tank squad. We crewed up both tanks and decided to wait for a fourth member to gun for GWbush's tank. Now, I have two philosophies when it comes to armour in PR.

1)If you have two in a group, keep them together, use them together. Combined firepower, four sets of eyes and the psychological effect of armour in a firing line has its role to play in breaking the enemy's position.

2)Rushing out of the main is a surefire means of being in precisely the position the enemy expects you to be when they expect you to be. If you sit back a few minutes (sometimes getting a crewperson is time consuming as we have -ALL- experienced) you can move up to an enemy which is already engaged, whose positions are already known, provided your other squads are being diligent in the provision of Intelligence.

Tanks are not primary assault vehicles, they are vulnerable (especially on dense, close maps like Kozelsk) and should therefore be taken great care of, as 'costly' assets. They are effective assets of course too, but their effectiveness is heightened when combined.

After about five minutes of waiting for a crewperson (350+ tickets remaining) a squad which had already lost an APC asset and spawned back at main (they were building firebases and fortifications) began to complain that we weren't doing our jobs. When we explained that we were waiting for a gunner for our second tank so as not to compromise our effectiveness, they drew our playerskill into question, stating that we should surrender the assets to them as they were prepared to crew them (despite that their squad was not named for armour, nor had they expressed any interest in crewing them from the start). They cited their 'high scores' from previous rounds as a sign that they were purely better players and berated my squad quite a lot. My precise response was 'or you can not tell me what to do.' If they had felt the need to designate assets, they could easily have stepped up and gone commander, alternatively one of their members could have joined our squad, filling the needed number and getting the tanks mobilized. This was a case of everybody wanting the support from the armour and nobody being willing to step up and actually join the squad to see that it was possible.

Shortly after this exchange, still waiting for a gunner, myself and my two squadmates were uncermoniously kicked without warning in an Admin Decision. Upon spawning back we were told that admins were anonymous and that *11*Bravo_Pathfinder had encouraged the kick. Here precisely are my thoughts on what that represents:

1) Players in vanilla battlefield 2 who are upset that a particular vehicle -THEY WANT- or -ONE OF THEIR FRIENDS WANTS- is being ill used will often stoop to traitorous behavior such as teamkilling, c4ing landing pads or ramming to prevent the other player from possessing the asset.

2) By definition the admin decision was made because we were not considered to be 'properly applying the assets' (rushing the enemy unprepared, without a gunner.) We were not warned that this decision was about to take place, nor given the option by an administrator of crewing a single tank and leaving the second (which we more than likely would have done, to keep our connection to the server.) We were not being unreasonable, and chat records will indicate that we were actually being very respectful in the face of abuse from the [fdn] crowd. It is not as though we were deliberately sitting idle in the vehicles just to disrupt gameplay. We legitimately needed a gunner and nobody was willing to step up and fill the position.

3) Taking this into account, I can deduce that the administration at Texas Teamplayers supports the use of admin powers to remove players, squad leaders and commanders from positions that they do not feel meet their own personal expectations. The appropriate solution to this situation would be to have gone commander, staying true to the SPIRIT of the GAME we are all playing. A commander order by server rules cannot be disobeyed. Ordering us to get into the fight would have been appropriate and -WELL RECIEVED-. Kicking us from the server so that server favourites and the same people who were berating us could take the assets we were occupying is NO BETTER, I repeat NO BETTER than a teamkiller in vanilla battlefield who stabs friends in the back to get the OMGLEETHAX HAVOX b4 teh NuBz.

Simply put, I'd like a formal position from TTP as a community on this issue. I understand that the will of administrators is law, I understand that I have not yet 'paid to play' on this server so my opinion will be worth less, certainly (and for good reason.) I also know that what took place is something I never would have expected from Texas Teamplayers administrators. I will step into a moment of candid honesty and tell you that I play Project Reality for theraputic reasons. It entertains me and gets my mind off my mundane employment at present. I work as a charitable fundraiser, and today I was struck by a giant ape of a man, very hard, for saying 'hello' to him. I did not have a great day, so I came home to drive a tank and feel cool and badass like we all want to do. I was denied that opportunity once by enemy action and I'm fine with that, but being denied that opportunity out of simple spitefulness in an unwarranted decision that takes a simple disagreement about the use of assets out of the context of a game and into a gaming community, I can not overlook. I have made my final statement on the matter. I leave it to your discretion and judgement. If this sort of administrative decision is something that TTP is looking to make its official policy, I fully understand, however I will be regrettably unable to continue my presence in this community in any way, shape or form.

Thank you,
Atrovenator

**Arreo** · 07-09-09, 12:03 AM

Moved to the Admin Abuse forums, since that is where is belongs.

**Wraith** · 07-09-09, 01:05 AM

Posting as a witness:

Many people on the team began to complain when we weren't getting tank support. You'd waited for five minutes and found that no one was interested in being a gunner in the second tank - but the APCs and infantry were getting slaughtered. I understand you were waiting to get full, but when APCs are getting diced and the infantry are crying for help you should be getting out there with what you can. In my opinion, the admin kicked your squad in order to get things moving.

In addition, you were very lucky not to be banned, and you almost were (the admin got your username wrong), as you then proceeded to not only continue arguing about the decision on the server, but also began slandering admins.

**DancingCorpse** · 07-09-09, 03:13 AM

First off, the admins do not have to give any warnings at all, and with the actions I see in these logs, I am surprised you were not banned immediately, especially considering your attitude.

You say look at the logs, I do. You probably won't like what we find.

27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:13:50] Tank squad 3 was technically up first fyi
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:14:10] donno why you'd make a second
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:15:14] need 2 gunners for Tanks
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:15:16] :D
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:15:18] we need 2 more tank crews
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:15:29] we need 2 gunners
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:15:34] for t-90
35 Infamous[fdn] 2 Team [23:15:37] Just crew 1 tank.
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:16:05] CAN WE GET 2 TO JOIN T - 90
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:16:14] neg, if we crew both we'll have a better chance. For serious. 2 With Mics who want to own some chechens.
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:17:04] we need one more on T-90 squad
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:17:07] ntank regiment needs one more recruit
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:17:10] uno
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:17:12] come on tanks... get in one and MOVE UP!!!! we need support up here
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:17:24] ONE MORE ON TANK SQUAD
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:17:27] we'll move up when you designate some targets for us
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:17:39] no intel, no risk armour
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:17:41] you'e in a TANK.... they have crap move up
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:18:01] WE NEED ONE MORE FUCKING GUY IN OUR SQUAD
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:18:09] SOMEONE JOIN TANK SQUAD
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:19:14] major tom come get in a tank
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:19:32] Palerider
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:19:35] join the dark side
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:19:37] :o
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:19:42] pale rider
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:20:09] julius
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:20:12] gun for us
54 JuliusRingel 2 Team [23:20:31] ok come in
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:20:34] we need a gunner on T90 squad
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:20:41] someone bite the bullet
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:20:44] and join us
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:21:18] are you fucking kidding me with these tanks?
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:21:28] get in the fucking battle
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:21:29] eligos you tard
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:21:31] we're not rolling out one at a time
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:21:33] they have NOTHING that can hurt you
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:21:35] we need one more gunner
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:21:35] Step up and gun for us and we'll move
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:21:44] get out and give those to my squad
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:21:50] hell no
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:21:50] give the tanks to a squad that is ready to cew them
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:21:52] or you don't ever tell us what to do agan
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:21:59] we need one guy
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:22:01] to gun
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:22:04] and we are off
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:22:06] how about the person with the higher score gets to talk?
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:22:09] learn to play
46 Wraith94 2 Team [23:22:18] its not about score
34 @=MWC= Col.eric13H 2 Team [23:22:28] elitism at its finest there
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:22:29] you're a bitch, get off this server. It's about teamwork and strategy.
15 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Team [23:22:32] man just stuf nd go waste assets you fuck
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:22:45] can we get a gunner on t90 squad
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:22:52] need a gunner :D
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:23:02] teamwork and strategy.... that's why FDN took top squad 3 maps in a row.... we were 1 - 6 last map to boot
35 Infamous[fdn] 2 Team [23:23:06] Your claiming assests you cant crew, theres no strategy in that
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:23:15] Q.Q.
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:23:23] we need one person
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:23:29] Normally when you make a tank squad, people just join it. This time, we're short a man.
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:23:30] to join our squad
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:23:33] why dont you
1 gwbush01 2 Team [23:23:39] just one person
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:26:08] still waiting on one competent gunner
1 gwbush01 2 Squad [23:26:10] whats the story
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:26:26] At least when we show up they won't be ready for us.
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:27:01] KICKING!!! OCdt Atrovenator
27 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Team [23:27:08] WTF?
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:27:10] KICKING!!! gwbush01
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:27:18] KICKING!!! gwbush01
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:28:09] KICKING!!! =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat
15 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:28:13] WHY
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Team [23:28:32] someone get those tanks fucking rolling
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:12] PALERIDER
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:20] YOU CANNOT GET IN THE GUNNER SEAT ALONE
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:20] palerider... you CAN"T ONE MAN A TANK
46 Wraith94 2 Team [23:29:29] hes bringing it to us
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:31] grab a gunner
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:31] you can't even get in the gun... read the manual
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:31] ok
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:29:37] * STRAIGHT UP
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:38] np he's takig it to his squad
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:29:43] * WHO IS ADMIN RIGHT NOW?
56 *11*Bravo-Pathfinder 2 Team [23:29:43] he's got a gunner he's picking up thank you
46 Wraith94 2 Team [23:29:53] admins are anonymou mate
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:29:59] if you're bringing it to a squad mate, appologies.... otherwise rtb that thing
61 plastik[fdn] 2 Team [23:30:10] pathfinder: sure, just making sure we have someone using it aftr that previous bit
56 *11*Bravo-Pathfinder 2 Team [23:30:19] Apollo...... he's picking up a gunner and now has one
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:30:22] I just got kicked because we were waiting for a fourth crewperson for tank squad.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:30:35] My squad was kicked also.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:30:51] I've been a regular here for awhile an I -know- that is ridiculous.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:30:57] I was not even given a warning.
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Team [23:31:01] just making sure after the last tank squad
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:31:14] Just kicked.
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:31:27] ASSHOLE MOVE
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:31:31] For devising our own battle strategy.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:31:48] Squadleaders are no longer free to operate at their own discretion if someone else wants the toys you have.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:32:07] That's as despicable as teamkilling someone for an asset. WORSE. You're an admin.
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Global [23:32:14] squadleaders who sit in tanks without full crews for half the map shouldn't whine so much
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:32:17] who kicked us
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:32:19] not one fucking person would gun for us
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:32:21] i want a name
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:32:22] we
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:32:29] WE NEEDED 1 PERSON
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:32:34] WARNING!!! OCdt Atrovenator WHAT WAS THAT
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:32:37] say pce to ur admin right you fuck
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:32:37] SO YOU KICK US
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:32:41] www.texasteamplayers.com I'm going to post on the forums there.
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:32:49] we all are
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:32:50] You can't kick peope because you don't agree with what they're doing wth assets.
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Global [23:32:53] y
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Global [23:32:57] yeah you can
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:33:02] [fdn] mouthed us about our scores
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Global [23:33:04] it's their server, you don't pay for it
15 gwbush01 2 Team [23:33:05] IM THE FUCKING MAC DADDY WITH THIS GAME FOOL
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:33:06] and we were not warned in advance.
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:33:08] No, I don't.
20 apollo[fdn] 2 Global [23:33:12] you were holding out team back by not using those assests
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:33:16] WARNING!!! OCdt Atrovenator STOP DISCUSSING IT IN GAME SIR
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:33:18] But I won't come back here ever again if that's what TTP has sunk to.
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Global [23:33:21] later
14 OCdt Atrovenator 2 Global [23:33:28] I'll take it to the forums, fucker.
44 =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat 2 Team [23:33:31] you guys want a good adminned place fullcontact war ! you guys are fuck go learn how its dome from us
21 eligos[fdn] 2 Global [23:33:32] you do that
56 ***NameCencor*** 2 Squad [23:33:39] !b Atro admin disrepect
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [23:33:42] ERROR: Filter [ATRO] does not match any player names or ID's. To specify an ID you must precede the ID with a period. For Example: ''!k .12 Team Killing'' will Kick Player 12.

From what I can see, you sat in the main base with both of the teams tanks for over 10 minutes, your team constantly asking for support and backup from the tanks, and you refused because you needed only 1 more person.

That is hindering your team, you could have gone out with the one fully manned tank and left the other one as a backup for when the first got destroyed or damaged. No, you just sit not doing anything useful for 10 minutes. Not. A. Thing.

Then when a squad that is more capable of manning those tanks and actually helping the team you tell them "you're a bitch, get off this server. It's about teamwork and strategy." You should have been banned on the spot right there. You are intentionally hindering your team at that point, there is no strategy in that.

When you give the excuse that you need intel, that is just scapegoating. If you are out in the field, the infantry can have a much better idea of what intel you need, and they WILL provide. I know. If you are in the main they have no clue what kind of intel you need and they will most likely not be able to give you any because they are too busy preventing their own asses from getting blown to kingdom kum. If you had been out there supporting your TEAM then they would not have that problem and could give you intel and support in return.

You say that the admins and other players were not being the teamplayers when, in fact, YOU and your squad were the ones not being teamplayers. YOU left your team out to hang. YOU didn't help your team. YOU were the nonteamplayer. Finally, YOU were wasting assets.

When you get kicked, which I might add, needs no warning (as well as for banning), you come back and say the admin was the nonteamplayer when, in fact, all you did was sit in the base doing nothing to help the team. THEN you start disrespecting the admin, which gets banned instantly regardless of any situation on our servers.

Hopefully the others involved in this got/will be banned for their actions as well, since they were identical to yours.

**Wraith** · 07-09-09, 10:25 AM

Although it isn't my place to decide who gets judgment or not, the only one I believe should be banned was =GtH= Fight_to_the_deat, as he did the most blatant slandering of the admins and then advertised another server on ours. Atro, while his conduct was unacceptable here, did little slandering and more arguing of the decision. I'd played with gwbush in the previous game, and he was a good squadmate.

**FragRaptor** · 07-09-09, 10:42 AM

As a formor battlefield admin I would like to offer an opinion:

I agree entirely with the admin's actions in this case, although I think the situation could have been improved dramatically if the admin put a reason onto the kick.

From my experience in the admin circle and practice you give a reason after the kick. While I'm unsure what the situation was with the admin's condition whether he was only able to get as far as the name, I do think the admin could at least have offered a 'server disturbance' reason.

The way he kicked looked very random without a reason and the players in question would have understood better if he saw why. Although being a 'regular' he still has no right to come in demanding to know who the admin is.

My final opinions of this case:
The player was causing a disturbance to the server and 'wasting assets' (as far as I can read). The admin's actions (kicks and what not) were right and in place, however his style seemed without reason and to the untrained eye may have seemed abusful and random. I believe both the player and the admin could have improved the situation better.

**draco7891** · 07-09-09, 11:36 AM

*Devil's advocate hat*

Originally Posted by DancingCorpse

From what I can see, you sat in the main base with both of the teams tanks for over 10 minutes, your team constantly asking for support and backup from the tanks, and you refused because you needed only 1 more person.

Incorrect.

Code:

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:17:12]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMcome on tanks... get in one and MOVE UP!!!! we need support up here

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:17:41]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMyou'e in a TANK.... they have crap move up

21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:18]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMare you fucking kidding me with these tanks?
21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:28]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMget in the fucking battle

21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:44]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMget out and give those to my squad

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:50]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMgive the tanks to a squad that is ready to cew them

The only people complaining in the logs were the FDN members, who were intent on crewing the tank themselves. Not the whole team, just one tiny group of people who wanted to play with their toys and make sure they got best squad again with their massive point totals.

That is hindering your team, you could have gone out with the one fully manned tank and left the other one as a backup for when the first got destroyed or damaged. No, you just sit not doing anything useful for 10 minutes. Not. A. Thing.

When you give the excuse that you need intel, that is just scapegoating. If you are out in the field, the infantry can have a much better idea of what intel you need, and they WILL provide. I know. If you are in the main they have no clue what kind of intel you need and they will most likely not be able to give you any because they are too busy preventing their own asses from getting blown to kingdom kum.

Finally, YOU were wasting assets.

As perhaps the most poignant damnation of this point, the logs prove useful:

Code:

15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:33:57]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMnow the tanks cannot coordinate
15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:02]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMin the same squad
15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:07]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMhow useful
44	=GtH= Fight_to_the_deat	2	Global	[23:34:13]	ahahahah and they died lmao

15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:27]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMand they died
44	=GtH= Fight_to_the_deat	2	Global	[23:34:37]	both of them?? wow

40	AC_337	1	Global	[23:34:48]	hell yea

53	[FFTF] DesmoLocke	1	Global	[23:35:11]	haha the Iast tank just sat there and got hit with the fieId gun 3 times...

Where was the infantry's intel? What happened to the teamwork that was supposed to crush the opposition? How useful was the tank support, that died 6 minutes after leaving the main? How useful was the tank that sat in front of a field gun for three consecutive shots?

One squad, concerned more with their scores than the team, whines that someone else has their toys, and when they can't bully-beat them into submission, the admin steps in and removes them, whereupon the whiners take the tanks and promptly drive them to their demise without providing useful assistance, to await their 20 minute respawn times.

The admin should not have used a blank reason when performing the kicks. You must always display a reason.

I won't comment on Atro's and Fight_to_the_death's subsequent return and badmouthing of the admins and commentation on the server, as those things are equally unacceptable. You of all people Atro know we handle things in the forums exclusively.

It's a poor situation, and a poorer reason to kick. The first 15 minutes of Kozelsk are not decided by the tanks on the field. Given the difficulty of the terrain for the tanks, they serve as little more than mobile heavy defense. In that scenario, it would be wisest to keep them as safe as possible. If the infantry cannot give intel while the tanks are in base, then they could not give it while they were out and about (if they were under the firing protection of the tanks, they wouldn't need to give intel on the enemy, would they).

It was a poor decision by the admin to give in to the tremulous whining of a single, points-focused squad of clan scum. Assets are first-come, first-serve, not who-can-man-them-now-because-they-want-to. If any one of the FDN guys had joined the tank squad instead of whining, the whole situation would never have come about. But because they wanted to play with their clan buddy-buddies, and the admin acquiesed, now we have an abuse claim.

I submit that the FDN members were in the wrong regards the tank situation; the admin was in the wrong regards the kicking; Atro is in the wrong concerning his return to the server and subsequent actions.

Draco

**DancingCorpse** · 07-09-09, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by draco7891

*Devil's advocate hat*

Originally Posted by DancingCorpse

From what I can see, you sat in the main base with both of the teams tanks for over 10 minutes, your team constantly asking for support and backup from the tanks, and you refused because you needed only 1 more person.

Incorrect.

Code:

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:17:12]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMcome on tanks... get in one and MOVE UP!!!! we need support up here

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:17:41]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMyou'e in a TANK.... they have crap move up

21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:18]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMare you fucking kidding me with these tanks?
21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:28]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMget in the fucking battle

21	eligos[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:44]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMget out and give those to my squad

20	apollo[fdn]	2	Team	[23:21:50]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMgive the tanks to a squad that is ready to cew them

The only people complaining in the logs were the FDN members, who were intent on crewing the tank themselves. Not the whole team, just one tiny group of people who wanted to play with their toys and make sure they got best squad again with their massive point totals.

That is hindering your team, you could have gone out with the one fully manned tank and left the other one as a backup for when the first got destroyed or damaged. No, you just sit not doing anything useful for 10 minutes. Not. A. Thing.

When you give the excuse that you need intel, that is just scapegoating. If you are out in the field, the infantry can have a much better idea of what intel you need, and they WILL provide. I know. If you are in the main they have no clue what kind of intel you need and they will most likely not be able to give you any because they are too busy preventing their own asses from getting blown to kingdom kum.

Finally, YOU were wasting assets.

As perhaps the most poignant damnation of this point, the logs prove useful:

Code:

15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:33:57]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMnow the tanks cannot coordinate
15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:02]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMin the same squad
15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:07]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMhow useful
44	=GtH= Fight_to_the_deat	2	Global	[23:34:13]	ahahahah and they died lmao

15	gwbush01	2	Team	[23:34:27]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMand they died
44	=GtH= Fight_to_the_deat	2	Global	[23:34:37]	both of them?? wow

40	AC_337	1	Global	[23:34:48]	hell yea

53	[FFTF] DesmoLocke	1	Global	[23:35:11]	haha the Iast tank just sat there and got hit with the fieId gun 3 times...

Where was the infantry's intel? What happened to the teamwork that was supposed to crush the opposition? How useful was the tank support, that died 6 minutes after leaving the main? How useful was the tank that sat in front of a field gun for three consecutive shots?

One squad, concerned more with their scores than the team, whines that someone else has their toys, and when they can't bully-beat them into submission, the admin steps in and removes them, whereupon the whiners take the tanks and promptly drive them to their demise without providing useful assistance, to await their 20 minute respawn times.

The admin should not have used a blank reason when performing the kicks. You must always display a reason.

I won't comment on Atro's and Fight_to_the_death's subsequent return and badmouthing of the admins and commentation on the server, as those things are equally unacceptable. You of all people Atro know we handle things in the forums exclusively.

It's a poor situation, and a poorer reason to kick. The first 15 minutes of Kozelsk are not decided by the tanks on the field. Given the difficulty of the terrain for the tanks, they serve as little more than mobile heavy defense. In that scenario, it would be wisest to keep them as safe as possible. If the infantry cannot give intel while the tanks are in base, then they could not give it while they were out and about (if they were under the firing protection of the tanks, they wouldn't need to give intel on the enemy, would they).

It was a poor decision by the admin to give in to the tremulous whining of a single, points-focused squad of clan scum. Assets are first-come, first-serve, not who-can-man-them-now-because-they-want-to. If any one of the FDN guys had joined the tank squad instead of whining, the whole situation would never have come about. But because they wanted to play with their clan buddy-buddies, and the admin acquiesed, now we have an abuse claim.

I submit that the FDN members were in the wrong regards the tank situation; the admin was in the wrong regards the kicking; Atro is in the wrong concerning his return to the server and subsequent actions.

Draco

My bad on the first part, I had seen the different names but I failed to see the tags on the ends of their names last night when going through the logs.

To the second part, I was only looking in the logs at all parts with Atro in them. I was not present for the escapade, so all I had to go on was the logs. But also, if the tanks had not sat in that main for so long the enemy might not have been prepared for them as easily, they had plenty of time to get all the guns in the right places and to set traps.

As to the rest, I will leave that to the admin who performed the kicks.

**Walkerxes** · 07-09-09, 08:51 PM

Regardless if Draco's advocacy, were they in 2142, all 3 would be in the banned forum right now. Atrovenator has been around here long enough to know full well he should not have returned to the server in the manner he did, but instead come to the forum and file this claim then, instead of trying to call out the admin on the server. And the other two "demanding" the admins name? Really?

**11Bravo** · 07-09-09, 09:56 PM

Atrovenator, had I not already had to deal with a hacker on the server demanding me to get out of the Logistics Truck or get him a sniper rifle, which resulted in me getting teamkilled. As well as keeping the Team from having a necessary asset for which to push the opposing force with. I can assure you I would have had a lot more time to read the chat and attempt to follow along, while the rest of the team was not getting support from your misguided decision to hold onto assets without using them. Which looks exactly like you are causing our team to go to battle without back up. I would have gladly removed you from the server. I couldn't even read all the bullshit chat at the time since I was down and you can't read chat when you are in the wounded stage. At the moment I was alerted to the situation in the main, which should not have happened at all, yeah I call that bullshit. The assets are not yours, at the moment you can't operate them correctly, it's your decision to figure out a way to be useful to the team or get out of the armor and let someone else man it.

I can assure you that I would have banned your ass and your buddies for non-teamplay and you would have been gone for admin disrespect which I was in the process of typing up when you left right before I pushed the enter button. So you may account yourself lucky I wasn't quick enough.

I don't give a damn about who gets the fucking armor, so long as they use it properly in support of the team. Since you chose not to leave the main, then you & your buddies got the boot. Don't like it, well tough shit. You had several choices to make and you chose the worst possible to the teams detriment.

I was not the one who kicked you, another admin witnessed the bullshit in the main, and I told him to handle it. You want a warning? You think you are entitled to one? I call over five minutes plus of not moving out of the main because you can't get another gunner, a kickable offense, whether you do or not does not matter to me. You don't like it, then take it up with those who are higher up the food chain than me. They don't approve of it, I'll hear about it. I see you on the server again, playing like that and even let your keyboard talk stupid and I'll find that ban button a whole lot quicker.

If you think I don't know how to run a tank, a squad, or a team; then you have not really played with me enough to remember. As far as I'm concerned if you play like you did last night, then it might be better for you to stay off of the TTP PR Server.