Thread: Unjust slay.

Ok so today at approximately 8:50pm I feel that I was unjustly slayed. The map was nuke and I was awping the outside from garage as a ct. My teammates are calling that the T's are rushing down the vent to go plant downstairs. I proceed to switch my view to the door to try and kill a couple straggling T's that are late on the rush to make it easier for the guys that are already downstairs defusing. After unsuccessfully doing so I proceed to rotate downstairs via the back stairs. When I get downstairs I take a quick peek at the computer room side to see if there are any T's which there are none. I peek the corner see a T, take a shot and miss. He then proceeds to nade me, and instinctively I fall back so as not to be damaged by the nades so I can make an attempt at the bomb. While I am falling back three more nades are tossed down to the position where I was at, so I back up some more. At this time there is less than 10 seconds left on the timer for the bomb and realize that there is no way in which I can kill the rest of the T's and still defuse the bomb, so I decide to save my gun seeing as how it will be useful to my teammates the next round. As I am retreating I get one exit kill, the bomb goes off then I get slayed with a message saying "Make an attempt..." Admins on at the time of the occurrence were Scrum and Bravo, dont know which one slayed me though.

I think that I was slayed due to the mantra of the defuse or die trying rule. As most of us know, we had a hug drama fest over this exact rule a couple of months ago, related links to those threads:
http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=62169.0
http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=62088.0
http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=62113.0

After all of that I am under the impression that if you make your way to the site, meet resistance, take care of the resistance that you know of and have no time, you should be allowed to run away with your gun. Which is exactly what I did in my opinion and I should not have been slayed.

I would like to know what the reasoning was behind the slay and teh justification for it as well. Because based upon the information that was in those thread pertaining to the defuse or die trying rule, I was well within my means to save my gun for the next round.

There are witnesses to this event and I am sure that they will be in here to post on what they saw transpire for this as well.

Thanks for your time,
Duddy

Since I was on the same team as Duddy (ct side) and was viewing his PoV, since he was the last one alive. When I was viewing from his PoV, he was down below near b site coming from outside. He peak after the turbine room and saw a T and miss (tsk tsk tsk poor aiming imo). As he reposition himself from easily being killed and you can hear the bomb beep pretty fast. To the point that there was no chance of him even getting 1/4 of the way done on the bomb. After the bomb blew, Duddy was slayed and admin typed "Make an attempt". From previous review of the rules and events that has happen in the past. I believe Duddy made the correct call of not running straight toward the bomb with about 4-5 T's left and less than enough time to defuse the bomb, to just meet his death. He didn't hide or tried to save his weapon until it was his only possible choice other than running in with his awp and maybe killing one before the bomb kills them all.

I was the admin who slayed you. I was watching the entire event unfold. You were on the back side of B near the vents between the site and the backstairs down from the garage with an awp.

From my point of view you had plenty of time to move toward the bomb and make an attempt. There was still plenty of time for you to stop trying to snipe with an awp, use your pistol and at least try to make an attempt to get to the bomb. I saw you slowly make your way down then look down towards the door in B, then slowly move up and peek around the other corner towards the other door, then get a kill. Then you stayed in your position until the bomb exploded and then got a cheap kill from another T coming down the other side.

I would have given you the BOD if you actually tried to move towards the door but moving slowy getting sniping picks with the awp while being that close to the bomb is different from just not having a chance to defuse.

In my opinion with what I was watching I felt you were more concerned about saving your AWP than actually trying to make an attempt to make your way towards the bomb.

Just because there are 4 Terrorist alive doesn't mean you automatically not try to make your way towards the bomb with your pistol or a different weapon. From my point of view I did not see you hustle enough to get to the bomb.

Especially on Nuke, where you should have plenty of time to get to either bombsite no matter where you are at. So unless you were in T spawn, you shoudl have had plenty of time to get into the site and help defuse. All your other teammates did. And you're in the garage, where you should have plenty of time to get to the bomb. You did not put yourself in good enough position to get to the bomb on time. You may have had only less than 10 seconds left by the time you actually moved from outside to inside (which should take about 4-5 seconds max) but that is by you're own doing. Had you hustled without trying to snipe things may have been different.

I completely understand that you may have felt unjustified from the slay, but in my opinion watching the event I feel you had plenty of time to get to the site much faster to help your teammates and move much faster than you did. I know if I was awping and in the garage, and the bomb was planted I would immediately move down and help my team attempt to clear the area as fast as possible while defusing.

I hope you're not trying to use the excuse in this case that you didn't want to run to your death because if you had move a lot earlier you would have had more a chance.

So you slayed me because you would have played it differently if you were in my position? Im sorry but that to me is unacceptable. Everyone that plays css here knows that I have a different outlook on the game than you do, but I get slayed in this position because you would have done it differently?

Now if you saw the entire events unfold, did you happen to notice the three nades that were thrown my way at all? Because if you did, you would know that I would have been dead from that. So then I would have no chance to get to the bomb. Also not to mention by me staying up on the top floor that extra bit ensured that no one else was coming down the vents. I was only up top for another 10 or so seconds. I thought about rotating through vents, but yeah no T's were dying that went vents, so what good am I if i drop down vent and get shot right away? So I take the path of least resistance to give myself the best chance at defusing the bomb.

But yeah I am not you, I do not play like you and probably never will. I have my own way of playing as a teamplayer which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum of yours, but I would not expect you to understand how I play. But to avoid this situation in the future, Ill just think "Hey Scrum would do it this way." Then Ill fall down the vents, get shot by 4 T's and be of no use to my team.

Originally Posted by DuDDy

So you slayed me because you would have played it differently if you were in my position? Im sorry but that to me is unacceptable. Everyone that plays css here knows that I have a different outlook on the game than you do, but I get slayed in this position because you would have done it differently?

Now if you saw the entire events unfold, did you happen to notice the three nades that were thrown my way at all? Because if you did, you would know that I would have been dead from that. So then I would have no chance to get to the bomb. Also not to mention by me staying up on the top floor that extra bit ensured that no one else was coming down the vents. I was only up top for another 10 or so seconds. I thought about rotating through vents, but yeah no T's were dying that went vents, so what good am I if i drop down vent and get shot right away? So I take the path of least resistance to give myself the best chance at defusing the bomb.

But yeah I am not you, I do not play like you and probably never will. I have my own way of playing as a teamplayer which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum of yours, but I would not expect you to understand how I play. But to avoid this situation in the future, Ill just think "Hey Scrum would do it this way." Then Ill fall down the vents, get shot by 4 T's and be of no use to my team.

Duddy there isn't a need to be sarcastic. Honestly it's not a question if you play like me or not. I know you don't, thats fine that really doesn't matter to me. However as an admin I expect players (as I'm sure you would to) to make a real effort to get to the bomb in time in efforts to defuse or support their team defusing. In this instance I felt you should have put yourself in better position alot earlier to get to the bomb faster. I felt you did not.

Originally Posted by DuDDy

So I take the path of least resistance to give myself the best chance at defusing the bomb.

Plain and simple - the problem is because you slow played you're way to bomb you gave yourself no chance of defusing the bomb.

With your explanation this would be exactly like me as a CT waiting on Dust 2 in short A getting picks from Terrorist's coming out of B tunnels while the rest of my team was trying to make their way to the bomb while fighting. Then I would finally decide to go into B tuns 10 - 15 seconds later with 4 Terrorists alive knowing since I waited so long earlier there would be no way I could make it to defuse, therefore using the "don't want to run to my death" defense.

Sorry but there is no excuse why you were the only terrorist not to be able to make it to the bomb on nuke while being that close, period.

Originally Posted by Rage!

I was there as a witness, thus I am posting here. I don't think the slay was justified because he was in the bombsite fighting the terrorists, and making an attempt to defuse. Heck he is lucky to have survived the explosion just by the proximity that he was in when the bomb exploded.

You can't expect people to just rush balls out without checking spots or avoiding grenades thrown at them. He might as well drop his gun and commit suicide and have no chance of winning the round much less defusing the bomb.

The situation needs to be understood, if there is 1 ct vs 4 or 5 t's, and the ct has an awp, he needs to pick his shots and not run head first into a t waiting for him. I think the admin made a poor decision to slay him. Duddy WAS in the bombsite, WAS making an attempt, but did not have the time to defuse. By the time he killed the first or second terrorist the bomb was already too fast. So he decided to kill the exiting t's (making them buy new guns next round, thus less money) save his gun for next round where he can help his team more.

That's fine, I'm all for letting people live if they make a real effort in the begining to get to the bomb, as I do on many occasions.

The problem was he waited so long in the beginning to even put himself in a position to make it to the bomb. In my view this was on purpose to save his awp. Again, by his admittance he waited to pick T's that were coming down the vents first with his awp. He could have used this time to make an advance on the bomb while potentially killing T's on his way. Instead he decided to stay stationary to get awp picks knowing full well he would not have enough time to make a real effort at defusing.

Unfortunately, without demos on either side of the table here, it would be very difficult to see whether or not the player had time, making this an extremely difficult case to pass any judgment on at all.

While it is a bit unreasonable to ask a player to demo themselves anytime they are playing on TTP, we really need something more to go on if you would like to continue this abuse claim. Looking at what we have now is just going to be a judgment call on both sides from witnesses the admins and the slayed individual... I'm sure you of all people understand that this puts us in a bad position to make any action or to review any evidence of abuse.

The fact that you and some of the regulars who were online at the time feel that the slay was unnecessary has been noticed and can be referenced if there are any further issues with the rule or more claims of abuse.

So where would you like to go next with this? More witnesses can help your case... but I don't think it would be enough to warrant any actions by the admin staff without something more tangible for us to look at, you know?

If you want a demo I have one, here's the link.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0omyoomwzym

It will clearly show what I am saying. I made the attempt and by watching it you will see that my best course of action will be to save my gun. The round in question starts when I buy an awp. Oh and if you are wondering why I took the long way to downstairs is because I saw the T's had control of the area and I needed to get down there unharmed, hence going around the red container to the back stairs.

And do you really expect me to kill 4 or 5 T's, with 20 seconds left, with no other guns around me than the ones I had. Honestly think about this, if there was another gun I would have picked it up, but seeing none I chose the action best suited to my team.