Is the Dead Ringer broken?

**Zelmon** · 02-26-13, 11:46 PM

I am no spy expert so I might be barking up the wrong tree but I wonder why the dead ringer still functions the way it does. It can be so effective at drawing people away from the action chasing an "invincible" ghost. When you tag one you always have to have a part of you're attention looking for this spy. Does this make it OP. I hear so many cries of noob spy when it becomes obvious. Is it harder to be a dead ringer spy than it looks? Does the dead ringer cause real game imbalance?

**Vexon** · 02-27-13, 01:05 AM

Dead ringer is for faggots like smoke. It's what noob spies use because they can't get in and get the job done without dying.

All jokes aside, I am terrible with it. I probably have like 5 hours of actually legitimately using the Dead Ringer in game, and in those five hours it was probably the worst I've ever done as the spy. The loud decloak sound gets me every time. I think it does take skill, but that's only because of the loud decloak noise. If it wasn't extremely loud, I might even use it. I feel like you need to be either lucky nobody hears you decloak, be far away from enemy players, or do it as a loud explosion or something is happening. Also picking up metal for cloak can take skill I guess, but then again that goes for every watch except the Cloak and Dagger.
When you're on the opposite end of the knife, though, it can get super annoying not being able to kill this "invincible ghost". Everybody on the team goes after a Dead Ringer spy when it rings, but even then a lot of the time it will get away because of how little damage Dead Ringing spies take. Even when you light a spy up with flames, they get away more than they should.
In my opinion, I feel like DR spies should take the little amount of damage that they do now only when they first Dead Ring. Maybe have that buff for only a few seconds so that what ever caused the Dead Ring to trigger (such as a rocket) doesn't damage the spy much, and keep the buff on the spy for 2-3 seconds (just enough to get out of harms way so he can get behind enemy lines and decloak). Another thing I feel should happen with DR spies is to make it so they don't show up as a blur for 2 seconds after they Ring. In case a Soldier blows the spy up point blank, and bumps into the soldier, he won't show up as a blur so he can get out of there, but after that, if the spy bumps someone, that's his fault and he should blur as normal as always. Maybe if Valve did that I'd use it, but then maybe that'd make it OP in other ways. That's just my two cents, but I think we should get an opinion from someone who actually uses the DR, too..

**enf** · 02-27-13, 08:03 AM

Lower the invincibility just like they did with the phloginator (sp?) and I would be ok with it. You shouldnt be able to get away scott free with 95% invulnerability. Fn ridiculous and by far the weapon/tool I hate the most. I will go pyro the instant I see a DR spy. They are the trolls of TF2.

**EBF** · 02-27-13, 09:34 PM

Agree with enf and Vexon that DR should only have reduced damage taken the instant it is triggered and not for the whole duration of the cloak.

It is a broken game mechanic if a pyro can light a spy on fire, airblast him into a corner, and juggle him helplessly, and the spy takes approximately no damage. That's just silly.

On the note of weapons that need balancing, I think the gunslinger would be massively improved if it blew up instantly when the engy dies, similar to how a demoman's sticky bombs disappear when he dies. I believe that this would not affect core gunslinger gameplay as much as other ideas (such as lowering its health or having it be less accurate) and forces the engy to be more strategic.

I say this even as someone who enjoys playing gunslinger, as it can be incredibly unfun to play against.

**Langrad** · 03-03-13, 05:08 PM

A DR spy is good because they are extremly tough to kill. Some maps (fastlane) have so many metal packs around that a DR spy can just ring from pack to pack. I find it annoying because iv hit a spy with 3 crit rockets and he shakes it off and my health is gone, as mentioned I think no damage from the ring and perhaps 20-30% reduction while invisible would work. The current amount is rediculous.

**Solitude313** · 03-05-13, 12:12 AM

I believe the dead ringer is not overpowered....SHOOT ME.

Now, for some legitimate reasoning to back my opinion up.

The dead ringer's greatest weakness is the difficulty of positioning. It's the hardest watch to achieve a desired position. The noisiness, and even the benefits of activation by damage are a big disadvantage to get into the proper location. Sometimes the dead ringer can be the only viable watch as well. On certain maps, that accumulate more spam, like goldrush or dustbowl, using the invis watch is much more difficult and extremely situational, and the cloak and dagger is simply too slow. This doesn't mean I can deny the truth though, the dead ringer is the most powerful watch for almost all situations...but this is limited to pubs. The ally of spies is incompetence, the dead ringer is so effective because of people who simply can't use their ears, don't know what a dead ringer is, or have no idea how to handle it as soon as the spy pops it. In competitive tf2, where all the players know how to handle dead ringer spies, the effectiveness is reduced exponentially.

I can see how the dead ringer can piss someone off, especially if the spy is experienced at escaping once the dead ringer is triggered. But here's my final opinion:

TL

R: Is the dead ringer the most powerful watch? Yes. At least in pubs. Does it really need to be nerfed? No.

Take account I might have a bit of bias as a spy main...was...is...idk anymore

**Cookie** · 03-05-13, 10:17 AM

It's not really OP, the sound is really distinct so it's not hard to spot out if you can listen for it.

**enf** · 03-05-13, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Solitude313

I believe the dead ringer is not overpowered....SHOOT ME.

Now, for some legitimate reasoning to back my opinion up.

The dead ringer's greatest weakness is the difficulty of positioning. It's the hardest watch to achieve a desired position. The noisiness, and even the benefits of activation by damage are a big disadvantage to get into the proper location. Sometimes the dead ringer can be the only viable watch as well. On certain maps, that accumulate more spam, like goldrush or dustbowl, using the invis watch is much more difficult and extremely situational, and the cloak and dagger is simply too slow. This doesn't mean I can deny the truth though, the dead ringer is the most powerful watch for almost all situations...but this is limited to pubs. The ally of spies is incompetence, the dead ringer is so effective because of people who simply can't use their ears, don't know what a dead ringer is, or have no idea how to handle it as soon as the spy pops it. In competitive tf2, where all the players know how to handle dead ringer spies, the effectiveness is reduced exponentially.

I can see how the dead ringer can piss someone off, especially if the spy is experienced at escaping once the dead ringer is triggered. But here's my final opinion:

TL

R: Is the dead ringer the most powerful watch? Yes. At least in pubs. Does it really need to be nerfed? No.

Take account I might have a bit of bias as a spy main...was...is...idk anymore

Spot on Solitude. Maybe thats why I have such an issue with DR is because the lack of attention from the team...