Thread: What is weapon "WORLD"?

Originally Posted by Kagato

1) The deagle that can 1-hit kill common infected yet almost every other weapon registers as 75% damage for a non-lethal head shot.

2) The improved HP should apply to SI as well. 75% damage on non-lethal head shots.

75%? That doesn't sound right. That's the damage percent for Advanced, even Expert is lower than that at 50%. I think it's closer to 33% to be honest.

3) No auras should be displayed at all like you mentioned: not even if you're near an item.

I agree with that.

4) Defib should probably be removed from the list of items in realism mode since you are most likely going to die due to blunt force trauma and not something like tachycardia, ventricular fibrillation, cardiac arrhythmias, or myocardial infarctions.

But how are people going to respawn? Or not at all? No team will live throughout a Campaign (on Expert and probably Advanced) if their teammates don't respawn at all. So, only in saferoom?

5) FAKs give way too much health. They should give the same amount of health pills do but that health should be permanent instead of wearing off over time like adrenaline or pills. Instead, we have FAKs that heal us to 80~95 HP.

You can change that with the cvar "first_aid_kit_heal_percent 0.8", which heals 80% of injuries.


I should really make a thread for my Realism Script for L4D1. It does a lot of the things mentioned here (limited ammo including pistols, no glows at all, etc.), and I'm working on a Realism Mode addendum for L4D2.

Originally Posted by Acermors

7
But how are people going to respawn? Or not at all? No team will live throughout a Campaign (on Expert and probably Advanced) if their teammates don't respawn at all. So, only in saferoom?

You couldn't be more wrong. If you're dying on expert, you're obviously not an expert, so turn the difficulty down a notch and get better. In realism there should be no respawns what-so-ever. A friend and I did a realism expert run on Dead Center earlier and the only people who died were the bots. Mainly because they refuse to put their back to something solid when zombies are coming. With melee weapons the survivors are even more overpowered than before. There's no reason you should be getting hit by anything other than the occasional charger.

Quite frankly to make the game as realistic as possible with common infected and especially SI infected with current canon would be near impossible.

Think about melee weapons; Could a regular man (The builds of our playable characters) swing an axe or katana so quickly and skillfully? No, the wood of an axe actually breaks quite easily (Fucking annoying, trust me, especially considering how hard it is to get a handle attached to an axe, fiddly fucking bastards, takes hours), the head would fly off, the katana would dull as well, although a dull blade is often more dangerous than a sharp one). And the fact that they cannot break goes against the idea of realism, the axe would quickly dull, as would the katana, the night stick would quickly break after cracking so many skulls, the crowbar would quickly bend, the frying pan would bend out of shape quickly but would probably be useful for a while.

Although, it has been established that our characters are immune, as are a lot of people, this is realistic to an extent.

"Zombies" in the L4D series are referred to as such in a LOOSE way, LOOSER than a hooker the day the sailors come home (Yeah, I went there), because there's no other quick and better term for them. It has been established that people even transform into infected whilst alive (See the insane prick in church, the Death toll Campaign in the first game), showing that these are still people, merely infected with a degenerative condition that causes severe mental degeneration and extreme aggression (CI referred here) and to an extent mutation (If you note the mutations you will see that all are muscularly related, for example, the smoker and its tongue; the tongue is actually very long as it extends deep down into your system (Not as long as that, but lemme finish), it could have been stretched and forced through increased blood flow and system spasms during mutation (it also appears to be very thin and infected when spat out), the smokers limbs and figure would support this argument, as well as the fact that compared to others although he does have more fine motor skills than the CI he also happens to be very weak in hand to hand combat by comparison to the CI as due to the mutation he now has more to support and is quite clumsy). Also, people respond differently in a few different ways, as well as severity, for example if you look closely at CI you will see that they even have some "growths" on them, much like the Boomer, except the Boomer swelled up and now contain an insanely large amount of this infected bodily liquid (It could be compared with puss or such, as different diseases can force you to excrete disturbing fluids) I could go on and on with such explanations for all the SI and CI, but I'm wasting too much time.

Another argument for your "realism" is that there should be no cross-hair, you think you're gonna see one while holding a machine gun at chest height shooting at swarms in a spastic fashion? no.

Also, none of our characters have no such experience with actually handling weapons, how would they know how to aim or handle the high-tech sniper rifles? Who taught them about maintenance and reloading?


Final note about how people keep mentioning head shots.
Romero did not invent the zombie genre. He remade it into something that most people suck off because they cannot think of their own ideas. The "Dead" Series only represents just that, the "Dead" series, not all Zombies.
Zombies are actually part of the voodoo religion (and NOTHING like what appears in any films made) and one of the first depictions of a zombie is in a VERY old film called "White Zombie" which came long before Romero, it shows zombies merely as mind slaves of a man. Also, people seem to choose which aspects of zombies to say are canon and they always choose mixes of multiple depictions, which always tend to be the ones that would make the zombies more of a threat, ie. Fast running, Infection by contact, Growing intellect.

L4D has its own canon of zombies.
Do we know if the dead have risen from the grave? No actually, it's a possibility that is up to VALVE to explain, so at this point we're going to say no until proven otherwise.
Unlike almost all but Romero's work the L4D infection is not air born.
The infected in L4D are weaker than regular humans by a logic that goes to a biological level (Whether intended or not), they are infected, a foreign organism is fucking with the body, the body although it can't do shit against it will fight back against infection, this would weaken them (you know how you're tired when you get the flu? that's your body using your energy to fight infection), lower awareness, etc.
A lot of zombie canon says that zombies are after brains, L4D they do not even seem to care for flesh and if they come upon a body of a deceased they will ignore it, regardless of whether they were infected or not. L4D zombies seem only wanting to kill Ala extreme aggression.
The Zombies of L4D come out at day and night, many zombie canon says they only come out at night, L4D can be around whenever they want.
L4D zombies are attracted to loud noises of all varieties, regardless of what it comes from, for example the pipe bombs; they appear to want silence, they want to break that shit, they know it is not human, however loud noises causes even more aggressive actions, in other canon zombies will often just ignore loud sounds if it is obviously not a living creature.

I've rambled too much and begun to say jackshit. I bet no one has read this far but the points above stand. L4D has its individual zombie canon (As do 99% of all zombie media, except some others only change much smaller facts, normally to make them seem like bigger threats). To be 100% realistic then comparing it to what is ingame without factoring in all possible human responses (People in Real Life could pull insane crap, they could act like "Magyver" (SP?) and unlike ingame humans could actually climb a fence.
We may see this kind of gaming eventually, but it will not be for decades.

Originally Posted by Joe The Zombie

I love Realism mode, but I was wondering how you'd make it more realistic?

• Change the hud so you can only see your health.
• No SI at all.
• The CI a bit less common, as you wouldn't find 1000 zombies in the middle of nowhere, like in Swamp Fever.
• Headshot ONLY. None of this "Less damage to the body" stuff. Headshot/Decapitation ONLY will kill it.
• Skill level would change how much damage CI do, where the items are etc. Not how much damage they could take.
• No halos at all, no matter how close you are to an item.
• Hordes smaller to counter the headshot only.
• Removing limbs would only slow infected down, unless all were removed, then they could only do damage if you're stood on them.
• Pill/Adrenaline Overdose. Vision goes blurry, controls limited a bit like when attacked by a jockey etc. Continuing to use more pills and Adrenaline increases this effect.

I would like to see realistic magazine capacities (no 50 round mags for the M16!!) and realistic recoil on the weapons too. Force people to fire in small bursts or single shots, and force them to COUNT their ammo you know... like people have to in real life?

Also make it so the ammo count was counted in magazines, not in total rounds left. So more of a Battlefield 2 sort of system, but without the 'rounding up of bullets at the end' stuff. Constantly reload when you have 3-4 bullets left in the gun and eventually you will find yourself with a rifle and several mags for it, all with only 3-4 bullets in each.

Would definately help to earn the title of "realism". But, I suspect, would frustrate the crap out of the majority of gamers, who really aren't interested in this kinda level of realism. Those who were play Tom Clancy games, I guess?

Originally Posted by bolandjf

You couldn't be more wrong. If you're dying on expert, you're obviously not an expert, so turn the difficulty down a notch and get better. In realism there should be no respawns what-so-ever. A friend and I did a realism expert run on Dead Center earlier and the only people who died were the bots. Mainly because they refuse to put their back to something solid when zombies are coming. With melee weapons the survivors are even more overpowered than before. There's no reason you should be getting hit by anything other than the occasional charger.

Everything always goes 100% according to plan, there are never any variables or unexpected spawns.
There is also no such thing as lag.
You always have the perfect group who follow directions.
Melee weapons also totally do not beat the living shit out of your team when you use them while standing on them.
You didn't assist the bots? I'm gonna call you shit because the game is called "Left 4 Dead" not "2 Shit-Heads Left".
With an attitude like yours I think I can safely assume that the reason you and your "Buddy" were playing long-side 2 bots was because the actual players that you would have started with couldn't handle any of your useless bullshit by the time they left the first safe room.

Please stop talking out of your ass you elitist tool.

We play with bots because it's hard to find people who aren't garbage at this game. Bots never run off to die and say "oh i thought". Don't think, just follow me. Bots never friendly fire after I've repeatedly told them to use a melee weapons. Melee weapons don't damage your team unless you're a fool who can't aim. It's useless assisting the bots in this mode, because they'll be incapped again within 10 seconds, not to mention wasting every health pack and adrenaline shot in the short time between.

It took 7 restarts and 1hr 49 minutes. We've tried it with 4 players and failed miserably each time because of the reasons I stated above. All restarts were on the finale. Why am I a tool because I'd like a bit of a challenge? The mode is called realism, and if a zombie apocalypse were real, I can guarantee you won't come back to life in the next safe room.

Originally Posted by bolandjf

You couldn't be more wrong. If you're dying on expert, you're obviously not an expert, so turn the difficulty down a notch and get better.

Now, now... That right there is a terrible idea. Nothing prepares someone for Expert quite like Expert. Playing on Advanced a lot will help, but one must play on Expert to get used to it, even if only on Single Player.

In realism there should be no respawns what-so-ever. A friend and I did a realism expert run on Dead Center earlier and the only people who died were the bots. Mainly because they refuse to put their back to something solid when zombies are coming. With melee weapons the survivors are even more overpowered than before. There's no reason you should be getting hit by anything other than the occasional charger.

There are always mishaps, accidents, and stupid or funny failures. There's no reason someone who simply made a mistake should be taken out of the entire game just because something happened he/she had little control over.

For instance, on DT3 I threw a pipebomb into the woods from that small shed in between the house and the trainyard to clear some CI. There was nothing, no SI, no Tanks growling, no Witches crying--no sound at all except the pipebomb and the CI chasing it. Yet, when it exploded, it hit a Witch, who then ran like hell and annihilated me. And there was no time to do anything about her, since she ran through the trees and was nigh invisible for most of her approach.

So tell me what an expert should do when an angry Witch appears two feet in front of him, with mostly full health and about to strike?

I agree that you do need to play expert to get used to it, but I stand by my statement that in realism mode there should be no respawns. It's supposed to be difficult, after all. There's nothing that would make you better than a single mistake causing you to restart the entire campaign. It's possible and not very difficult to crown the witch as she runs at you. An expert would shoot her face the moment she got close enough. An expert might not have thrown that pipe bomb to begin with, since he had cover in the form of a shed and a decent choke point to slay the zombies as they approach.