Headwear, and the 50 item backpack - Random item drops?

**9ball** · 04-21-09, 10:02 AM

I play tf2 because it's not an mmo

**Consultant** · 04-21-09, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by JadeStern

I play tf2 because it's not an mmo

And it will never be one.

An MMO, in my opinion, is defined by the playstyle - turn taking, button mashing, spell casting disconnected combat and Player vs. Computer/Environment raiding nonsense.

A game you run around in first person shooting weapons at other player-controlled enemies, that is an FPS.

**9ball** · 04-21-09, 10:14 AM

I suppose all I hope is that, skill always remains above equipment strength to an extreme level. Saying that 'everyone has a chance to get good weapons' is just a cop out... thats not true balance, thats just rewarding people who play 50 hours a week

**Consultant** · 04-21-09, 10:35 AM

I dont think anybody is proposing a BFG style skill removing weapon.

That would be ridiculous.

There are nuanced skills in TF2 though...that Valve is rewarding with the upgraded weapons...

For example. Sneaking up behind an enemy as anything other than a spy is hard - so the made a special weapon (backburner) that rewards it.

Same with the UberSaw. A medic is typically not in any position to use his melee weapon, so if a medic wielding the ubersaw manages to get out of a dicey CQB situation with that saw, he gets a bonus for it.

Other weapons are not that way, like the Natasha - but that's how I see it going.

**Flak** · 04-21-09, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Consultant

10 Million people all around the world play and are addicted to WoW, so the subtle inclusion of MMO skill/achievement/weapon/item upgrades is a logical move.

One game that never got enough credit for its innovation was PlanetSide.

If you dont know, you better ask somebody...

I played PS on and off for 5 years... god I hate SOE. They ruined the best game ever made.

PS at release lacked a lot of the typical RPG crap that sucks. No random damage. No skill/stat bonuses from higher levels, no money/economy etc. And it had all the MMO stuff that is awesome... large persistent world, massive fights, in game clans, charter development etc. And best of all, it was an FPS.

Basically all leveling up did was make you more versatile. A brand new player, after completing virtual reality training and playing for like an hour, could use any weapon, drive any vehicle, get any implant, and use any equipment (except the command uplink device)... they just could not use them at the same time... and the battle rank grind was very tame. You could get to BR 20 (and thus get the maximum certs possible to use stuff and open up all 3 implants) in like a month. Command rank was more of a grind, but it was really not needed and didn't affect you in a fight. Even a maxed out charter was still limited in what they could use though, and you had to rely on your teammates. It was a very team oriented game, but it was still possible to log on for 30 minutes and solo while still contributing to your empire.

...then, SOE slowly ran it into the ground. Most of the major changes/additions they did resulted in crappier game play and people leaving the game.

I hope one day that a good company like valve will make an MMOFPS that is based on teamwork and player/team skill (not stats, level, and item grinding like 99.9% of MMOs). It would be epic.

Edit: Lol this ended up being pretty off topic... but if there is anything to learn from PS, its that more content, constant game tweaks, and listening to forum posters (whiners) can seriously screw up game balance and game play. The good thing about TF2 is that people can make mods and host a server any way they want.

**Consultant** · 04-21-09, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Flak

Originally Posted by Consultant

10 Million people all around the world play and are addicted to WoW, so the subtle inclusion of MMO skill/achievement/weapon/item upgrades is a logical move.

One game that never got enough credit for its innovation was PlanetSide.

If you dont know, you better ask somebody...

I played PS on and off for 5 years... god I hate SOE. They ruined the best game ever made.

PS at release lacked a lot of the typical RPG crap that sucks. No random damage. No skill/stat bonuses from higher levels, no money/economy etc. And it had all the MMO stuff that is awesome... large persistent world, massive fights, in game clans, charter development etc. And best of all, it was an FPS.

Basically all leveling up did was make you more versatile. A brand new player, after completing virtual reality training and playing for like an hour, could use any weapon, drive any vehicle, get any implant, and use any equipment (except the command uplink device)... they just could not use them at the same time... and the battle rank grind was very tame. You could get to BR 20 (and thus get the maximum certs possible to use stuff and open up all 3 implants) in like a month. Command rank was more of a grind, but it was really not needed and didn't affect you in a fight. Even a maxed out charter was still limited in what they could use though, and you had to rely on your teammates. It was a very team oriented game, but it was still possible to log on for 30 minutes and solo while still contributing to your empire.

...then, SOE slowly ran it into the ground. Most of the major changes/additions they did resulted in crappier game play and people leaving the game.

I hope one day that a good company like valve will make an MMOFPS that is based on teamwork and player/team skill (not stats, level, and item grinding like 99.9% of MMOs). It would be epic.

Edit: Lol this ended up being pretty off topic... but if there is anything to learn from PS, its that more content, constant game tweaks, and listening to forum posters (whiners) can seriously screw up game balance and game play. The good thing about TF2 is that people can make mods and host a server any way they want.

What server did you play on? I was the leader of the Ghosts of the Revolution on the Vanu Sov. on the Emerald server. We had like 80 person raids with Armor, Air, Infantry and Special Ops/back-hack interference squads. It was SICK.

We had theme nights where we all raided in those suits that rocket jumped - we all named ourselves RickJames### names. Oh man, what a blast.

**Sammus** · 04-21-09, 02:27 PM

All I know is that my level 36 demo with 19,000HP and 1200 Strength is going to bash your spy using my "EYE-SPY" Ray Gun XT3000 Killbot.

At least, as long as you fail your saving throw.

Uh....

**Graverunner** · 04-21-09, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Consultant

10 Million people all around the world play and are addicted to WoW, so the subtle inclusion of MMO skill/achievement/weapon/item upgrades is a logical move.

One game that never got enough credit for its innovation was PlanetSide.

If you dont know, you better ask somebody...

sometimes I cry because I never got to play planetside.

**Sepharim** · 04-21-09, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sammus

All I know is that my level 36 demo with 19,000HP and 1200 Strength is going to bash your spy using my "EYE-SPY" Ray Gun XT3000 Killbot.

At least, as long as you fail your saving throw.

Uh....

I lol'ed

My scout with 3000 agility will totally rock you, though.

**Flak** · 04-21-09, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Consultant

What server did you play on? I was the leader of the Ghosts of the Revolution on the Vanu Sov. on the Emerald server. We had like 80 person raids with Armor, Air, Infantry and Special Ops/back-hack interference squads. It was SICK.

We had theme nights where we all raided in those suits that rocket jumped - we all named ourselves RickJames### names. Oh man, what a blast.

I played Markov mostly. I was in Hostile Takeover (and their various alt outfits, moved to emerald for MARKOV and N0 OUTFIT shenanigans, and of course when SOE merged the servers) but started out in D2A (definition of a zergfit, but still tons of fun). My best memories were when a bunch of outfits from markov got together and made MARKOV outfit on emerald (when we invaded yalls server for some event). As cool as Ht was, there was something about 3 platoons all on coms hitting the same target that was so epic. I remember during the event we would get over a platoon in the air and just fuck up a base then all hot drop and rush the spawns/cc when the armor took the courtyard, freaking crazy.

I remember going up against gotr when we came over. It was a big difference to actually go up against a large organized VS outfit. Outside of a few smaller outfits, Markov VS were a joke. Yall defiantly knew how to use the Magrider lol. Markov never rolled armor on quite the scale emerald did.

I still keep up with some of the markov guys on a forum they set up (most don't play anymore). Apparently, SOE is still fucking up whats left of the game. Last I heard they turned the lasher into an MCG with lash damage and VS has >50% global pop during prime time.